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3d printed mouse.

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    Posted: 23 May 2016 at 6:10pm
G,day everyone.

I have been slowly figuring out my new 3d printer and the software used to create things. I have made a mouse type surface lure which is a little rough at the moment. Just wanted to know what you thought and whether you think it needs more/less detail. I'm trying to keep to relatively simple designs at the moment while I'm still in the steep learning phase! 
I would like to acknowledge Fletch for inspiration in the design.

Regards.
Rob.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horrorhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2016 at 6:41pm
Looks good, how does it swim?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CaptainCranky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2016 at 7:30pm
Underneath should replicate a Mouse.
Swimming action of a real mouse may mean going to a pet shop and buying a live one and giving it a swim once in a while so as to replicate it's action.
PS.You may also have best results if your Lure is stressed or panicking.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybonnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2016 at 7:45pm
Looks pretty good and alot like the Kutterfurra mouse by Aaron,even the eyes are the same but should catch fish,and please post up pics of the fish it catchesThumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fletch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2016 at 8:44pm
Dont know whether to laugh or what ..lol..
I guess it shows nothing is safe in the lure game once again .
Plastic is plastic and i keep knocking them out in hard yards of timber ..
Cheers aaron
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2016 at 9:15pm
how well does it float?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alistair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2016 at 10:24pm
Nice lure. Looks like the shape is similar to a number of mouse lures a quick search online come up with. The body, especially the rear section is a fair bit different than Aaron's I think, although they both have a tail. The head, well it has a mousey shape, ears and eyes, not surprising reallyErmm.  It reminds me a lot of a lure a mate made about 9yrs ago on a Monduran Dam trip chasing barra but his did not have any bib, just a twitch retrieve. Worked Ok too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fletch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2016 at 10:28pm
Yeah i agree a mouse is a mouse but i read it as we must have met or spoke some stage .. must have read it wrong im guessing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybonnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2016 at 10:48pm
Everyone is allowed an opinion but in my mind its a kuttafurra copy and not much that difference in the both of them
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote charger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2016 at 11:01pm
Swims good. Typical paddling action. Haven't fished it properly yet. 

Aaron, I'm not trying to copy anything you've done, but I did just want to acknowledge your design and some similarities. Mate I make lures in timber too and have only just started trying to get some designs worked out on the computer/printer. I make lures for myself only. I do not (and don't have the ability to anyway) copy anyone else's lures. That being said, I do like certain painting styles and some lures inspire design cues to me more than others. I understand that some people are concerned about (or just don't like) 3d printing and what it means for the future but I am not trying to upset anyone or tread on toes. I just thought people might find it interesting, and I always listen to advice. I promise you'll never see this or any other of my lures (plastic or timber) in a store next to yours. Furthermore, there is WAY MORE time required in hand finishing a 3d printed lure versus a timber lure, so the blood, sweat and tears is still there!!

Anyway, sorry if I have offended anybody by posting this lure. That was not my intention.

Regards.
Rob.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybonnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2016 at 11:06pm
I am not trying to upset anyone either ,all i was saying was there are a lot of similar features to Aarons lures and please do post up the pics of the fish it catchesThumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alistair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2016 at 11:08pm
Originally posted by jaybonnie jaybonnie wrote:

Everyone is allowed an opinion but in my mind its a kuttafurra copy and not much that difference in the both of them
 
 
Fairly harsh accusatory words.  Maybe take the paint away and just look at the lure body shape and I think you will find that the 2 lures a quite different.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fletch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2016 at 11:10pm
Not offended at all mate .
I know what you mean on the finish to the 3d printers as looked into those with a bit of reading aswell.
Ive had heap of filthy messages sent to me in past when ive made stuff on my journey on lures . Some that have ended up looking something similar to something else from the past . Which i never made again . lucky ive kept all those messages in a file .
All good by me . I did read it and think we must have spoke or met some stage ..read it wrong i must have ..
Cheers aaron
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybonnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2016 at 11:14pm
If thats your opinion Alistair then you are entitled to itThumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote charger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2016 at 11:31pm
We have met at the lure show a couple years ago but i just went with your nickname from here in my original post. Sorry for the confusion. It seems i have inadvertently touched on something i was unaware of. I just wanted to acknowledge that when i was working out this design i liked the way you incorporated the bib angle into the body design. I can assure you and everyone else that it is in no way a "copy" though. I haven't even seen one of your mice in the flesh, just a couple of pictures from this site of some you did with fur and ears on the body which i thought looked cool. I thought it would be nice to acknowledge YOUR design.

I hope this clears things up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samurai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2016 at 6:26am
Funny thing is they both look like copies of a few Plastic Chinese Mouse Lures I have in my collection
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alistair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2016 at 8:59am
I think many lures are going to have similarities when you are trying to mimic the same animal. I don't like what the word 'Copy' implies as it can send a thread downhill very quickly. Copy is what the Chinese do where everything is pretty much exact, except the quality most of the time.. To be honest, the shape reminded me at first of a codseeker surface lure but this one has a more rounded bum and typical pointy mouse nose. I have always been amazed at how much a paintjob can change how a lure looks, one of the reasons I like Hybrids.
 
Would be interested to see how it floats and the action in the water as I expect 3d printing will only become more popular.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fletch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2016 at 9:30am
Hahaha .... yeah righto
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lure-Nut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2016 at 10:47am
Amazing .... an infamous Mouse has opened up my eyes to the use of 3D printing as an alternate lure making solution Tongue

So what is the 'compound' that is being 3D printed and how does it compare to timber from a kg/cu.m perspective  Question

Comparatively, what is the material cost to 3D print this rodent Question



Cheers

Rob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote charger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2016 at 2:10pm
G,day Rob.


The lures are printed in ABS which comes in spools of different diameters and weight. My printer is a cheap Aldi one which is surprisingly capable and it uses 1.75mm diameter filament.

That filament can be purchased in many colours. I just use whatever i have loaded because the 5 or so coats of primer cover it anyway. ABS is good because it is strong and can be welded/smoothed with acetone.

When the lure comes off the printer it is rough. Real rough! It requires acetone smoothing and sanding and lots of primer filler to finish well. It would take at least twice as long (if not more) to get a timber like finish. That may because of the quality of my printer though.

In terms of cost, it is pretty cheap but again, i would say more than timber. I get my timber from a local joinery and it costs me bugger all so that probably helps there. The most expensive components are definitely the split rings and hooks which are decoy and owner.

The floating capabilities can be changed in the software and that is a huge advantage over wood. You can pause the print to add rattles or, if you were more clever than me, tow points. You could also just print 2 halves and do a wire through design, welding the lure together with acetone to finish. Possibilities are many!

The lures weigh about the same as most timbers but i would say are heavier than timbers like cedar and kurrajong.

It is a cool but challenging way to make lures. The hardest part is learning how to use some software to actually make something. That part was very difficult and my abilities are extremely basic compared to what i have seen people achieve. If people saw how I go about getting a shape produced on my computer and the amount of "luck" involved in it actually working i can assure you there would be no further mention of "copying" anything! The only program i can use at the moment is Freecad and it is definitely not designed for free form shapes!!

Let me know if i can offer anything more.

Regards,
Rob.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lure-Nut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2016 at 3:25pm
Rob, many thanks for the detailed post which I have found very informative. 

Although it would take a lot to seduce me away from timber, you have opened my eyes - I commend you for putting in the hard yards and getting such an excellent outcome.

I don't quite understand how the float qualities can be changed by the software - maybe it prints tiny air bubbles as it goes along LOL Confused

Hope to see more of your 3D printed creations in the future Thumbs Up


Cheers

Rob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote charger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2016 at 3:42pm
Kind of Rob. You can add air chambers and also the thickness of the walls have an effect on the bouyancy. The wall thickness is very easily adjusted with a simple numerical input. The air/rattle chambers take a little more working out.

Regards.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nicho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2016 at 5:58pm
he looks good mate...you made it...who cares what its made of...you created it from nothing but a vision that inspired you..it resembles a rodent.... the paint is real good , but fish wouldnt care if it was naked and rough sanded......now go catch a fish on it...thats the fun part...well done
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote charger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2016 at 7:55pm
Cheers Nicho. Hopefully there's a metre cod swimming around that likes the look of it too! Will be fishing it soon for sure.

Regards.
Rob.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raffey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2016 at 8:06pm
Awesome looking lure there Rob.

Cheers,

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote charger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2016 at 11:02pm
Thanks Danny.

Here's a short video showing the swimming action.

https://youtu.be/vrWXM1kWjAE
 


Cheers,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote p.j. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2016 at 11:27pm
Originally posted by Nicho Nicho wrote:

he looks good mate...you made it...who cares what its made of...you created it from nothing but a vision that inspired you..it resembles a rodent.... the paint is real good , but fish wouldnt care if it was naked and rough sanded......now go catch a fish on it...thats the fun part...well done
 
Well said Nicho Thumbs Up
 
Must say I have seing some other and very weird things made by a friend same way.
Really interesting you thought off make a Lure.
Will be interesting to see where you can take this fore sure.
Please let us see what you come up with in the future
Thanks PJ Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alistair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2016 at 8:56am
Nice.
 
I edited your post to include the video. To do this you use the insert movie tab but need to drop the s from the https in the address.
 
The lure has a nice walk but something I would look at refining, and I think this will be achieved from the bib shape & angle is the ability of the lure to start walking in the first couple of inches of the retrieve. I have the same problem with my surface lures with some working really well and others not 100% and as yet have not found that sweetspot all the time. When the fish are biting it does not seem to matter at all but when slow and or cold I have found that walking a lure in the close strike zone compared to pulling it and it starting to walk after that first pull can make a difference.
 
More questions re the printing, Is the lure hollow like plastic moulding or solid like urethane?
I assume you can print any sized chambers into the lure and drop in balls for rattles during this process which would then be fully enclosed once finished?
Makes me wonder about how to apply a long sloped forward chamber lengthwise and a decent weight with thin lure walls to counteract the weight so that in the cast the weight goes to the bum of the lure increasing cast distance but rolls forward at rest to allow the lure to sit well in the water. Would maybe work well in a popper  for distance casting and make a big thud every time you popped it.
How long does a standard cod sized lure take to just print?
Makes me wonder how hard it would be to learn the software to make things like fizzer blades and creeper paddles. The lighter weight would allow smaller creeper lures to be made as the off the shelf steel ones you can buy require larger lures.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote charger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2016 at 10:24am
Thanks for the edit Alistair.

Yeah getting the walking action quickly is always a challenge. This one does reasonably well on that front but you can't tell from the video because of the height I had the rod. When the line is closer to the water it walks within 20cm or so. I usually twitch my walkers the first few feet of any retrieve which negates the issue entirely.

So the lures can be made anything from completely hollow to completely solid. Hollow is not really an option the way I do them because then the tow and hook points have nowhere to screw/glue into. So I set it as solid but with a rattle chamber built in. That chamber size varies on what bouyancy and sound I want. For a deeper, quieter sound I go with thick walls on the rattle chamber. For a louder, higher pitched knock I go with thinner walls. The balls (rattles) themselves and the type of their construction (ceramic, plastic, steel etc) also has an effect on sound.

The chamber size and shape is only really limited by the lure shape and size and how much "meat" you want to screw into. With poppers this limitation would not be as pronounced as there is no bib to worry about securing.

A cod sized lure takes about 3 to 4 hours to print at a medium quality setting. A fine setting is not really that important as there is so much hand finishing involved anyway that it just wouldn't be a benefit anyway. My printer is pretty slow and basic and this process can be much faster with better (more expensive) gear.

As for learning the software. I can't say how long that would take as that is an individual variable. When I bought my printer I challenged myself to not open the box until I learned how to make whatever I wanted to print. It would be easy to just download and print things but there is almost nothing available in terms of fishing lures to download. And then if you aren't happy with how it swims what would you do then? So I struggled through with YouTube tutorials and now I can make some things. I struggle with free form shapes using modelling software but I have figured out how to get the most out of a program called Freecad.  It is designed for mechanical parts (which are pretty easy to figure out) but limited in its ability to create lure shapes. I am impressed with what it CAN do though. My strong advice would be to learn how to make stuff before you even consider what printer to buy. 

Hope this helps a bit.
Regards.
Rob.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alistair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2016 at 11:18am
Thanks, 3-4 hrs is a long time, something that would only be suitable for hobbiests even at 1/2 that time but I guess you can set and forget. I think I might need to invest in this but might spend some time online to learn a bit more first. Time will work to my advantage as the price comes down more and I guess with many things the more you pay the better the printer. A lot of money to spend when you have already invested in a lot of woodworking gear that neither will ever be a financial benefit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote charger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2016 at 12:35pm
Yes Alistair exactly.

It's slow. But as you say, you can set and forget. And the technology is improving rapidly. For me it all worked out well because I have many other uses for the printer. It is fantastic being able to print a replacement part for something that breaks around the house for example. And the kids can make the coolest toys with it! Plus I love having new challenges  (and toys!) and this was a huge challenge. 

I've posted this pic in another section recently but here is another surface lure done on the printer. Couple of different sizes and colours.




And a very rough diver pattern (crappy paint jobs - rushed them just to try them out)


Getting some semi-decent shapes out of it. It is so much easier getting a shape out of timber!

Will keep people posted with developments as they occur.

Regards.
Rob.






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mcleod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2016 at 10:35pm
Hey Rob,

Great to see someone else making lures with their printer. Those look great. I have been doing the same for a while now, it is great and certainly very challenging process. Search for my last post if you want to see some of my creations and don't hesitate to drop me a message if you need any help with anything.

It is great to see this post has got some people talking, 3D printing a lure properly is a significant and enjoyable challenge, much more than people would initially realize I suspect. The learning curve just to print something is significant let alone designing the finished product. Me personally, I have printed and settled on the designs for two lures which I successfully tested on barra and GT's during a recent trip to the gulf. It took me 6 months to design both lures and 14 different test models to get the internals right. A moving weight system is trickier than you might think and getting the hook hangers to support enough weight is a decent challenge. And that is all just to get the lure printed. I agree 100% with you that the work involved from that stage is significant to get it too the final version.

Many way's to "skin the cat" when it comes to making lures, fantastic to see someone taking the plunge like I have.

Angus
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote charger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2016 at 11:21pm
G,day Angus.

Fantastic to hear mate. It will be great having someone to bounce ideas off and help solve problems that do arise. I am very thankful for your post and look forward to discussions in the future.

Cheers mate,
Rob.

P.S. please throw up a photo or 2 of your GTs. They are my equal favourite species alongside Murray Cod.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colin eckter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2016 at 1:25am
Top work mate , all is good , we need people to think , like you .
gday
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nicho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2016 at 6:01am
Hi angus....i must of missed your 3d post, this is the first i have seen, can u post a few pics when you get a chance of where your at, no doubt youd of mastered it, i dont think id have the patience, but interested.
Jas
Nichos Maulers Homemade timber lures....THEY CATCH FISH!

YA DONT KNOW...IF YA DONT GO...SO GET OUT THERE AND... FISH IT
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