Kadaitcha WOW! |
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Lure-Nut
Stall Holder Tonk Lures Joined: 01 Dec 2009 Location: Mermaid Waters Status: Offline Points: 1486 |
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It will be a very pleasant day when the focus on a lure is more about the lure itself, rather than the politics behind it - the politics are killing this hobby for everyone.
This is a stunning lure and for that reason alone we should be applauding Rob on it's creation rather than embroiling the whole topic in fractious discussions about the Luremaker and his history. The lure is clearly made by Rob Gaden and called a Kadaitcha, there is no subterfuge - there are now 2 very lucky collectors who had the coin to buy them .... well done to both of you IMHO there are other non-public places to take on personal spats, be they based on facts or innuendo I'm not on any side and never will be, just hate seeing discussions on great lures denigrate into this sort of rabble. Cheers Rob |
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Tonk Lures
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reel deal
LureLovers.com Fanatic Joined: 11 Aug 2010 Location: Shellharbour NS Status: Offline Points: 2607 |
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Sorry Brad - beat you to it ..
Mencho and yours truly, created this 750mm "Wadaicha". NOT for sale .. not for a grand or even 6 camels Hmmm 6 goats maybe ?? wadey |
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www.reeldealfishing.com.au
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froggy06
Unverified New Member Joined: 05 Jul 2012 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 425 |
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Great idea , what about a show us your copy section, where collectors can post a pic of an original lure , then a pic of thier copy to compare , would be great for people to see and hopefully learn more about lures. I love the originals , but i also love a great copy ( tribute) lure as well ,
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Dave
Senior Member Assassin Lures Joined: 08 Jan 2010 Location: Maryborough Qld Status: Offline Points: 459 |
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I wonder what Peter Newell would think i dont think he'd give a rats a..e and one other thing isnt it funny that every man and his dog claims to be Peters best mate a friend of mine did know him and said he was an absolute gentleman all i can say is let sleeping dogs lay.. Cheers Dave
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Darby
Stall Holder Fishaholic Lures Joined: 29 Nov 2009 Location: Brisbane Status: Offline Points: 7477 |
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"but i also love a great copy ( tribute) lure as well"
Froggy, I have made MY copy of one of Peter's lures for each anniversary of his passing, So far a... Kadaitcha Scorpion Chin Minnow each will stay here, and in case they go missing, well marked to be a tribute lure, as well as being MY copy, so just a little different to the real thing. Brad |
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"If you are going to have fun with your rod.. get some wood
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Alistair
LureLovers.com Guide Beta Tester Joined: 10 Nov 2009 Location: Casino Status: Offline Points: 4385 |
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Rob, I respect what you say but also believe that this is a lure site that records history, good and bad. I have never claimed to be a mate of Peter, but I did know him enough for him to speak to me about the Scorpion and the outcome of that as well as interviewed Kathy about many things, that period included. Both have told me how it came to blows with RMG and the feeling towards the man so to put this into the category of a tribute as worded in this post( which never was claimed by RMG in the eBay listing ) is I feel insulting and in the very least, poor taste. Why make a Kadaitcha when he had his own lure of that type in the Deep Dan?
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Alistair.
Comfort the disturbed - Disturb the comfortable. |
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Lure-Nut
Stall Holder Tonk Lures Joined: 01 Dec 2009 Location: Mermaid Waters Status: Offline Points: 1486 |
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Guess I'm not a psychic and will probably never know, but if it was to stir up and get under the skin of the Newell camp - it appears he's achieved his aim I'd prefer we just focussed on the lure .... and from the pics it looks stunning Cheers Rob |
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Tonk Lures
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Alistair
LureLovers.com Guide Beta Tester Joined: 10 Nov 2009 Location: Casino Status: Offline Points: 4385 |
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Sometimes things are too quiet so a good stir of the pot makes life interesting, some of us like that more than others In the end, it really does not effect our lives at all.
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Alistair.
Comfort the disturbed - Disturb the comfortable. |
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steiny
LureLovers.com Fanatic Joined: 29 Jul 2011 Location: Mackay Status: Offline Points: 5285 |
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$1500 seems like a lot of dosh for a lure IMO regardless of the maker!
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cheers steiny
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bluey
Unverified New Member Joined: 08 Dec 2009 Location: IN YOUR FACE Status: Offline Points: 1247 |
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to learn about carving a lure, for us that are not lure makers
best thing is to copy a lure and see how we go for practice but i have held in my hand copies that have had the writing copied on the lure as well that is of a maker that is not with us and were sold for good money HOW SICK IS THAT so yes copy artist's out for money are among us make a lure and put your own name on them regards George
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JOKER
Stall Holder Shane Love Lures Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Location: Pindaroi Status: Offline Points: 1651 |
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Here is my poor worthless inferior copy, not sure but dose the real thing have a rattle just wondering as I took the time to put one in mine as we find that rattle makes a big difference where I fish.
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doccod
LureLovers.com Fanatic B.J.'s Spinnerbaits Joined: 07 Feb 2010 Location: Harrington, N.S Status: Offline Points: 1324 |
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Well a lot of food for thought here!!!!!!! Talk about wingers......So what if one of Rob Gadens lures got great money.......Good on him!!!!!! As for the Scorpion issue......I thought that was long dead and buried since the design has been manufactured by every copy cat throughout the lure building world......For the record I think the best cod catching lure that Peter Newell ever made was the Boney.......That lure remained unwritten by me because it was catching heaps of cod...... and me and Peter along with the Gows had a fall out over advertising greed by a magazine...... I was writing for at the time.......So I never informed Peter of my findings.........Also the "Ploppy" range of lures created at the time by that exact partnership in my own mind rates far higher for native fish than the original 'Floppy" lure whereby the lures idea came from.........Everyone copies the "Flatfish" design and you know why?????? Cause that trademark wide sway seductively tantalizes greenfish..........As for being serious about lure histories going with lure makers......Sounds too polictical for me.........B.J.
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froggy06
Unverified New Member Joined: 05 Jul 2012 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 425 |
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After many phone calls and emails ( some abuseive ) claiming that no such document exists , and if so why hasnt it been seen by anyone before, well here it is , maybee now another chapter can be closed on the " so called " Newell / RMG ill feelings that some people have expressed.
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Nicho
Stall Holder Nichos Maulers Joined: 25 Feb 2010 Location: POMONA QLD Status: Offline Points: 8752 |
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its interesting yet sad to see debates over bloody lures that most only have an opinion by hear say....
after looking through many old posts on a few other sites and seeing the same ridiculous debate, that got out of hand ...resulting in people being banned from several sites because of overly political views.. and its very easy to work out by the replys in those old posts, that one or two are the same ones that bring the politics to this site................SAD REALLY they are lures....made for catching fish......if others want to pay big dollars for genuine brands, or for a copy from a noted maker, who cares..... Instead of whingeing ,id rather shake my head, and put that money into a fishing trip to use lures for what they are made for....fishing..... ..who cares who made what......its interesting history for sure.... but too many people think they know it all, but have never achieved anything in the field of their supposed expertise. Im with Rob......focus on the lure not the politics......its slowly decaying this site to the detrament of many. thats my two bobs worth.
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Nichos Maulers Homemade timber lures....THEY CATCH FISH!
YA DONT KNOW...IF YA DONT GO...SO GET OUT THERE AND... FISH IT |
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handbrake
LureLovers.com Fanatic Joined: 20 Jul 2011 Location: Glenlyon Dam Status: Offline Points: 2390 |
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Froggy, thank you for putting up that Stat dec but the date is a little hard to read. Is that 1994?
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bluey
Unverified New Member Joined: 08 Dec 2009 Location: IN YOUR FACE Status: Offline Points: 1247 |
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if i gave you a Moller would you swim it? or put on the wall? i swam mine and through this we are getting more information, good or badthe worst thing is don't put anger in pm's if you can't say it here don't say it at all regards George
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froggy06
Unverified New Member Joined: 05 Jul 2012 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 425 |
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Yes Deb the date i s 1994 on the document. I am currently reading through boxes of old documents dating back to the early 1980 s including old hand written diarys . There is some great reading with dayly work ledgers , lure orders etc.
The information i have Deb goes like this , please corret me if you have different information ,
Informal agreement was signed and witnessed by Don Lawasn , " Chappy , Rob Gaden and Peter Newell and dated 18/10/1991. This was done in the car when the boys went on a fishing trip.
Some months later it was said by Kathy Newell " its not worth the paper is was written on "
A second legally binding document was sort after a long time. After alot of " toing and froing " the doucument i have shown was given.
This Stat Dec was given and recieved , and accepted by Robert Gaden as payment for an outstanding debt with Peter. The signing of this document and its rights was taken as payment of this debt.
I am open to be corrected if this information is not correct , as i am gioing off the information i have in front of me. This is not an attack on any of the people mentioned , just thought it might settle some of the on going rumours that have been circulating and views people have been expressing from both sides.
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Darby
Stall Holder Fishaholic Lures Joined: 29 Nov 2009 Location: Brisbane Status: Offline Points: 7477 |
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Froggy, I know the older collectors in the group, know of the stat decl, and the reason behind it.
I have seen a declaration copy too and as it was explained to me, the unrest came when Rob included the Scorpion in the RMG sale to Halco. As stated in the declaration, "and that no other person has permission to do so" Cheers Brad |
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"If you are going to have fun with your rod.. get some wood
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Lefty
LureLovers.com Fanatic Joined: 08 Apr 2011 Location: coffs Status: Offline Points: 1161 |
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Hi Froggy
You must feel like a kid at Christmas with a box of goodies like that. Keep us all posted on what you find. Cheers Jas |
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froggy06
Unverified New Member Joined: 05 Jul 2012 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 425 |
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For sure Jas , got some great stuff to get through , i couldnt believe how easy it was to get hold of , i made a few calls and different people said no worries , no use to them anymore so take them.
Got everything from dayly entries in diarys over 15 years , sketches of lures in design stage , lure orders , contacts of people who purchased lures , special lure orders , money transactions , business dealings , lure models that never saw the light of day , lists of prospective lure names and models it goes on and on is a very detailed history from the early 80 s , i will keep you posted as i slowly go through all of it .
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handbrake
LureLovers.com Fanatic Joined: 20 Jul 2011 Location: Glenlyon Dam Status: Offline Points: 2390 |
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I have a letter from Kathy Newell after Peter died that was sent to a well known fishing editor in reply to a fictional vale on Peter. Kathy was very upset and there was no debt involved in deal on Peter's behalf.
I am away at present. I will reveal more when I return.Debbie
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stinger
LureLovers.com Fanatic Joined: 05 Jan 2012 Location: wellington nsw Status: Offline Points: 1475 |
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thats great stuff nigel,,,,,,,,,, interesting that stat dec,,,,,
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REMEMBER FOOLS RUSH IN WERE ANGELES FEAR TO TREAD
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wazza
Senior Member Joined: 27 Mar 2010 Location: Inverell nsw Status: Offline Points: 249 |
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until Peters solicitor produced a copy of that document they backed down straight away. warren
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Seaweed
LureLovers.com Fanatic née Capt.Seaweed Joined: 23 Jan 2011 Location: Darwin N.T. Status: Offline Points: 3124 |
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Very interesting that 'fineprint', thanks for the enlightenment Brad. Curious to know how a bloke from Melbourne, acquired some very interesting documentation .
Seaweed.
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"Always Merry and Bright"
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froggy06
Unverified New Member Joined: 05 Jul 2012 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 425 |
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Cpt SeaWeed , acquiring this information is pretty simple if you know where to look , and with a little research , anyone could have got it before me . I was directed to other sites regarding this topic to " do some reading " , which i have done. Thre is always a paper trail to follow if guided in the rite direction.
HALCO did not back down , and still use the name under contract with Jarvis Walker pty ltd.
Jarvis Walker own the name Scorpion under act 28 of registed fishing names " Fishing Section "
HALCO have an under writting agreement with Jarvis Walker to use the name.
Peter Newell had to cease using the name Scorpion , which is why he used the M2 M3 ect during the Gower partnership.
The " Stat Dec " was accutally provided to the solicitors by HALCO , not Peter Newell.
It was also deemed by solicitors that the US patent should have been given to Gaden , with the Stat Dec , but the patent had lapsed and was now worthless so it was not pursued any further.
Once again , if i am wrong in any way , please come forward and set the record straight.
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Nicho
Stall Holder Nichos Maulers Joined: 25 Feb 2010 Location: POMONA QLD Status: Offline Points: 8752 |
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Bluey, Im not sure if you were talking to me in this post? Im not getting into the political side of it at all.......and at no stage did i ever send anyone incl yourself a PM with any anger, what I said is as above?? Unless Im misunderstanding your point? Or the above was intended for someone else? Jas oh and shane, nice lure mate, not yet seen a standard shape done by you mate
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Nichos Maulers Homemade timber lures....THEY CATCH FISH!
YA DONT KNOW...IF YA DONT GO...SO GET OUT THERE AND... FISH IT |
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hazmail
Stall Holder Rayna Lures Joined: 05 Jul 2010 Location: Calwell A.C.T Status: Offline Points: 2562 |
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Only one way to sort this out--next lure swap all have to make a copy of one of his lures (Pete Newell), whoever runs it picks it. Some including me will be at a disadvantage though, because I have never seen one, but can go off pictures measurements etc.
The charity auction at the end should be worth big 'quids', I for one am nearly dead so that may add a very few $'s to the auction -- http://www.compassion.com.au/content/give-water-for-a-lifetime/gk6ljt OR we could send the proceeds to Pete Newell's wife. (sorry widow) Pete
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'RAYNA' ---Free Range Lures
peterayn@yahoo.com.au |
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Alistair
LureLovers.com Guide Beta Tester Joined: 10 Nov 2009 Location: Casino Status: Offline Points: 4385 |
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Peter, I quite like that idea, a different twist for sure. I don't know how Kathy would feel about taking the proceeds, one would have to ask but I don't think there would be any problem with the idea of it going towards a prostate cancer charity of some kind. Just a thought.
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Alistair.
Comfort the disturbed - Disturb the comfortable. |
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fletch
LureLovers.com Fanatic Kuttafurra Lures Joined: 13 Nov 2010 Location: Bundalong Status: Offline Points: 2967 |
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pete ...what a great idea . id like to have a crack at that ..whens it start .. cheers aaron
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seagull
Senior Member Joined: 31 Dec 2011 Location: Esperance WA Status: Offline Points: 746 |
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Yep same here i would been keen aswell for a swap like this............. Cheerz Errol
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hazmail
Stall Holder Rayna Lures Joined: 05 Jul 2010 Location: Calwell A.C.T Status: Offline Points: 2562 |
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@ $1500 a copy we should be able to come up with something close, -------- X 10 = $15,000 MAYBE.
Sold as a set or individually???? Pete
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'RAYNA' ---Free Range Lures
peterayn@yahoo.com.au |
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Aussbasstony
LureLovers.com Fanatic Joined: 04 Jan 2010 Location: Gold Coast Status: Offline Points: 2410 |
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Yeah mate , a legit collector set never sold for the same price and it was 11 lures not one Must of been a boycott , nah never heard of such idiotic rubbish ! Now what was this thread about again. |
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Darby
Stall Holder Fishaholic Lures Joined: 29 Nov 2009 Location: Brisbane Status: Offline Points: 7477 |
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"Must of been a boycott , nah never heard of such idiotic rubbish ! "
Charles, Geoffrey or Rosie ???? |
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"If you are going to have fun with your rod.. get some wood
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Lure-Nut
Stall Holder Tonk Lures Joined: 01 Dec 2009 Location: Mermaid Waters Status: Offline Points: 1486 |
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Interestingly, if there had been 3 Rob Gaden Kadaitchas for sale instead of 2 and the same losing bidder on both occasions had not last minute suicided the other 2 ultimate winners, the 3 unique big bidders on these auctions may have each won a lure for well under $600.
Assuming the appetite for the 2 winners is now 'sated' because they only each bid on one of the lures, what would the 'market price' be for the 3rd lure if it was now offered for sale I'm sure the twice lucked out losing bidder would bid the big bucks again, but would he have had to if the third had been offered, or would the first 2 winners have had to bid in big again to protect their initial $ investments Not for a minute do I suspect the 2 winning bidders are anything other than ecstatic with their purchase, but in hindsight it was a brilliant selling strategy Cheers Rob |
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Tonk Lures
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Alistair
LureLovers.com Guide Beta Tester Joined: 10 Nov 2009 Location: Casino Status: Offline Points: 4385 |
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As said, the problem between RMG and P.Newell was the sale of the scorpion design to Halco. And as pointed out the intended deal of the scorpion signed over to RMG was for him to make and market the lure, himself. I do not claim to be a mate of Peter's but I do remember him telling me on a couple of occasions how this happened and how he wanted to contest this in court but to take on a company like Halco was not an option for him financially, which obviously was very frustrating for him. I have also spoken to, and interviewed Kathy who has confirmed these events. To put it lightly, there is no love lost I have seen between them and this is why I feel that the lures in question made and sold are in the very least poor taste to have made. There is nothing legally wrong with it, but bucket loads of morally wrong .
The fact that this topic was put up was to cause a response. That much was obvious from the beginning. |
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Alistair.
Comfort the disturbed - Disturb the comfortable. |
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