Newell/Powell/Newell Scorpions |
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Powelly
Stall Holder Powell Lures Joined: 16 Feb 2010 Location: Port Macquarie Status: Offline Points: 2196 |
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Posted: 09 Feb 2011 at 8:47pm |
For those members who have read the "Powell Lures Story", you'll be aware of the friendship that I had with Peter Newell, his help with my lure making and his generosity. About 21 years ago, Peter gave me a couple of boxes of Scorpion blanks, ranging from cut-out blanks to fully carved and sanded blanks. Many of them I only needed to glue in the eyelets and bibs and then paint them - quite a few of them Peter painted for me.
Most of the Scorpions that I made from these blanks were given to friends and family, so I don't have too many left. I had a bit of a dig around today and took photos of what I could find.
The photo, below, shows the huge variation in shape of the Scorpion. The longest (blue) lure has a body length of 165mm.
Some of the original blanks.
The lures below are ones that Peter has given me, either as a finished/painted lure or as a finished/unpainted lure. The 2 plastic RMG Scorpions were painted by Peter as was the original, old mustard/green scale Scorpion with the corrugated bib.
Because of my love of trout fishing, I make the odd 2" Scorpion. The bottom 2 lures were made in my last batch of lures. The top 3 lures were made many years ago. The nude and white/silver scale ones were made last year.
So there they are. Not 100% true blue Newells, and probably have no collector value, but hopefully they provide a bit more information for those members collecting Scorpions. They are, obviously, very important to me and the friends/relatives have now been crossed off the 'sharing' list, when it comes to these Scorpions.
Travers
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fishing man
Senior Member Joined: 21 Dec 2009 Location: Ipswich Status: Offline Points: 183 |
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interesting stuff Travers, always enjoy your posts.
Love the pics too :)
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Cheers
Ben |
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Darby
Stall Holder Fishaholic Lures Joined: 29 Nov 2009 Location: Brisbane Status: Offline Points: 7477 |
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Travers, is there a reason for the sharp 'kink' in the belly. I have seen it on a number of Scorps with the narrow pointy bib, but not so common on the round bib ones. Was it more for the salty trollers and the gentle kink for the freshwater lures that are worked slower???
Brad |
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"If you are going to have fun with your rod.. get some wood
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Alistair
LureLovers.com Guide Beta Tester Joined: 10 Nov 2009 Location: Casino Status: Offline Points: 4385 |
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Hybred lures are something that I think are pretty speciel where it brings 2 lures makers skills together
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Alistair.
Comfort the disturbed - Disturb the comfortable. |
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bassnbob
Stall Holder B.O.B Timber Lures Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Location: Charlestown Status: Offline Points: 9390 |
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SO nice to have5 THANKS POWELLEY you stinky old pine snifferREGARDS BOB
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reelsandlures63
LureLovers.com Fanatic Joined: 19 Jan 2011 Location: townsville Status: Offline Points: 1243 |
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That is an amasing collection travers,one that any collector would be very proud of thanks very much for sharing the pics with us.steven
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deceptiondude
Ex Member. Serial Troll Joined: 30 Oct 2010 Location: NSW Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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g'day powelly,
the top 2 lures in the 2nd last pic look like they have writing 'embossed' into the bottom of them. are they moulded? they're the only 2 i can see in your impressive collection with these marks. |
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Brolly
Senior Member Joined: 25 Nov 2009 Location: Thagoona Qld Status: Offline Points: 437 |
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G'day Powelly,that is sure a fantastic bunch of Scorpions you have and it shows a variety of shapes and paint patterns,Love Em
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FISHING JUSTS GETS IN THE WAY OF MY LURE COLLECTING
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Aussbasstony
LureLovers.com Fanatic Joined: 04 Jan 2010 Location: Gold Coast Status: Offline Points: 2410 |
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Hey Travers, who let you out of your shed Great pictures mate and thanks for posting, but love the last little Quote you put on your post Cheers Tony
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edzard
Stall Holder Ollie's Stingrays Joined: 20 May 2010 Location: Mt Crosby,Qld Status: Offline Points: 581 |
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Very nice Traversgreat looking lures, thanks for sharing them with us.
Cheers
Ollie
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tooch
LureLovers.com Fanatic Twitchy Lures Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Location: windsor nsw Status: Offline Points: 3450 |
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Nice lures Travers, Your the master....You can't get much better than that......Pete
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Alistair
LureLovers.com Guide Beta Tester Joined: 10 Nov 2009 Location: Casino Status: Offline Points: 4385 |
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You must of missed what Travers said in his post
"The lures below are ones that Peter has given me, either as a finished/painted lure or as a finished/unpainted lure. The 2 plastic RMG Scorpions were painted by Peter as was the original, old mustard/green scale Scorpion with the corrugated bib."
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Alistair.
Comfort the disturbed - Disturb the comfortable. |
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Powelly
Stall Holder Powell Lures Joined: 16 Feb 2010 Location: Port Macquarie Status: Offline Points: 2196 |
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I knew I shouldn't have put those plastic lures in with the timber ones!
This is the only fair dinkum, 100% Newell Scorpion that I own. Built,painted and signed by Peter. Pete gave it to me in 1989.
The old girls been chucked around a few Tenterfield creeks and dragged through Glenlyon Dam a few times, so it's loosing the 'signing' and a bit of it's original gloss.
Travers
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deceptiondude
Ex Member. Serial Troll Joined: 30 Oct 2010 Location: NSW Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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nah mate they're all good!
I just didnt read it properly too busy loooking at the lures! |
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Powelly
Stall Holder Powell Lures Joined: 16 Feb 2010 Location: Port Macquarie Status: Offline Points: 2196 |
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I was looking through some photos last night and came across this one.
It's the Lure Display that I use at the Maitland 4WD Show. The photo would be from 2002 or 2003 - bought my first digital camera in 2002.
I've just found my old Sales Records, for the 4WD Shows (which will be on next weekend) & Maitland Craft Fair and thought you may be interested in the price and numbers of Scorpions that were sold.
The price was $15 - same price for the 4 years (1999 - 2002) that I sold them at these shows.
1999 Maitland Craft Fair - Had 3 Scorpions for sale, sold 2
1999 Maitland 4WD Show - Had14 Scorpions for sale, sold 4
2000 Maitland Craft Fair - Had 6 Scorpions for sale, sold 0
2000 Maitland 4WD Show - Had 6 Scorpions for sale, sold 0
2001 Maitland Craft Fair - Had 4 Scorpions for sale, sold 0
2001 Maitland 4WD Show - Had 4 Scorpions for sale, sold 4
2002 Maitland 4WD Show - Had 8 2" Scorpions for sale @ $8, sold 2
The lack of interest in the Scorpions was more a reflection of the type of people that come to the Caravan, Camping, 4WD, Fishing and Boat Show - mainly families, looking at camping gear and camper vans. Not too many serious fishermen, looking for timber lures! I wish, now, that I'd kept them!
Many of the Scorpions that weren't sold were given to mates. Malcolm Douglas ended up with some, via a mate who handed the ones that I'd given to him.
I've started making a few Scorpions, recently, but they won't be selling for $15!
Cheers
Travers |
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Alistair
LureLovers.com Guide Beta Tester Joined: 10 Nov 2009 Location: Casino Status: Offline Points: 4385 |
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Why wont they be sold for $15? (or similar on par $$$ with normal fishing lures) Are the ones you are making just a few for the collectors market or will you be making them as part of your general fishing lure line up? I personally would like to have a maker doing up some scorpions to be used as fishing lures as I cant see myself using my Newell's on the next barra trip but obviously the lures would need to be priced, well ... as fishing lures. Might end up making my own in the end I guess. One thing I would encourage anyone making copies of lures would be to either make something different about them or sign them under the clear coat to save any mistaken identity down the track. We only saw that recently with the Scorpion lure you painted many many moons ago that was mistaken to be a Newell. Obvious to many it was your paintjob but as new colectors come on the scene it can get confusing for them.
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Powelly
Stall Holder Powell Lures Joined: 16 Feb 2010 Location: Port Macquarie Status: Offline Points: 2196 |
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G'day Alistair.
My advice to anyone looking for cheap lures is to make the lures themselves. The Scorpion is a relatively difficult lure to carve - certainly a lot more difficult than a standard minnow shape - and I am not intending to sell them at 10 year old prices. Personally, I don't think $15 for any hand carved lure is a sustainable price, but it's a competitive world. Look how many lure makers have got out of the industry because of the poor return for a lot of quality work.
I don't intend to make many. I've been making a few for a bloke who wants timber Scorpions and is happy to pay a fair price for them. I've enjoyed making them and thought that I'd make a few more.
Not a bad idea to mark the lures in some way to distinguish them from the originals. As you know, I've never tried to pass my lures off as Peter's so, maybe, a TP on the arse might be a good move. As I said, I don't expect to make many.
Cheers
Travers
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doccod
LureLovers.com Fanatic B.J.'s Spinnerbaits Joined: 07 Feb 2010 Location: Harrington, N.S Status: Offline Points: 1324 |
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Great posts here and TERRIFIC scorpions travers,are the timber scorps you doing in the 75mm size with the painted metal bibs if so I'm prepared to pay for one or two down the track for me barra arsenal I'm slowly building at the moment! I yeah I think ALL your lures are collectable travers.......B.J.
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Alistair
LureLovers.com Guide Beta Tester Joined: 10 Nov 2009 Location: Casino Status: Offline Points: 4385 |
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What is a fair price for a fishing lure? Personally I think that $15 - $20 for a small to medium timber lure is fair IMHO. I think once you go over the $20 mark people will pass a lure over (unless they are buying Japan made plastic sensations for mega $$$ which I think they have more $ than sense. From my understanding, lure makers selling to retails shops sell for roughly $8-$12 then the shop put on a markup of 100%. I guess thats business. If lures are made for the collectors market though with higher $$$ in mind (and that is an issue I will bring up elsewhere) then I think that if they are a limited numbers or something else special then they can comand a higher price. Sometimes I think this gets taken advantage of though by some makers but I think we have seen this can turn against them in the long run.
I dont know if the Scorpion is much harder to make though, I knocked this 4 inch McSea Scorpion inspired Jack lure blank out whilst sitting on the beach with my very limited skills so a decent maker like yourself should be able to carve them out with your eyes closed
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Powelly
Stall Holder Powell Lures Joined: 16 Feb 2010 Location: Port Macquarie Status: Offline Points: 2196 |
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As I said Alistair, you are much better off making your own lures.
After 20+ years of lure making, I've moved on from trying to compete with cheap plastic lures. Surely you can't expect hand carved lures to be cheaper than $15-$30 mass produced plastic lures? In saying that, I still persist with hand carving lures and selling them at $12 to $15, because I need to be 'in the market'
It all comes back to the market forces of supply and demand. If the punters aren't prepared to pay the dollars, then the lures will not be sold.
The last thing that I need is a high demand for timber Scorpions, because I just don't have the time to carve them.
Think about the reasons that Peter Newell, an others, chose to outsource their lure making to lathe turned lures and plastic lures. Personally, I don't want to let the craft of hand carving lures die, so I'm prepared to carve limited numbers of lures each year. It's a personal thing and it can be traced back to my friendship with Peter Newell and the advice that he gave me 20+ years ago.
Obviously, it's a bit difficult to understand where I'm coming from. The last thing that I want to do is capitalise on Peter's successful designs but, unfortunately, they are not available in timber anymore and there are fishermen who want the original timber lures. As with the Kaditchas, I don't plan on making these lures a mainstream lure, rather fill a very limited demand for the original timber lure.
I think Big W still sell the plastic Halco Scorpions for about $10. Cheap as chips.
Cheers
Travers
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Alistair
LureLovers.com Guide Beta Tester Joined: 10 Nov 2009 Location: Casino Status: Offline Points: 4385 |
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I have made it a rule not to buy the Halco Scorpions for my own reasons. Saying that, timber beats plastic as a lure most days in my experiance so the Halco lures dont really appeal to me anyway.
I would like to add some Scorpions to my tackle box but as they would be purchased to be thrown into snags where they often wont come back it would need to be at a fishing lure price. As you said, perhaps I need to develope my carving skills and make my own. It gives me incentive at least.
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barneyminno
LureLovers.com Fanatic Deep River Lures Joined: 19 Apr 2011 Location: Esk. QLD Status: Offline Points: 1689 |
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l agree with Travers , its a labour of love for most lure makers as you cant possibly expect to make a 'good living' doing it unless you go with machinery or go plastic. For me , l have no problem paying $10-30$ for a handmade lure that appeals to me and is special/unique/well designed/artistic/highly creative/practical. lts not about what lm getting for the $$.... [you can buy 6 chinese lures for $30..] , but its about the lure being timber...and made by hand or hand/machine....by a person who has put thought and heart into it [there are lots of people here who do that!]. The one major benefit of lathe cut lures is consistency...l dont think l ever made two bodies the same!
Anthony.
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Powelly
Stall Holder Powell Lures Joined: 16 Feb 2010 Location: Port Macquarie Status: Offline Points: 2196 |
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I try to encourage all lure chuckers to make their own lures, which is the reason that I put together the lure making kits and the lure making article that Boothy published in Fishing Monthly.
I'm with you on the plastic lures. I wasn't trying to send you down to Big W to buy plastic lures, just making a point. And it's ditto from me on the Halco Scorpions, for the same reason!
Always happy to help anyone with lure making questions/problems.
Travers
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cornboy888
Senior Member Joined: 20 Mar 2011 Location: Dalby Qld Status: Offline Points: 289 |
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Hello Travers, I am one of those people who do not mind paying more for a lure that is hand made . I recently bought a George Dempster 3 hook lure. I read the story about this fellow on LL and the story behind the lure it`s origins- $1 an inch- supply cheap lures for kids etc and I reckon I paid for the lure and its story of how it came to be. When I show this particular lure to my mates I go in to details about pipeline George, $1 an inch, rare 3 hooker, mint condition and supply of lures for kids. It has been authenticated by captain cranky. It is the only Dempster Lure I own and to me it was worth the price I paid for it. I would like to buy one of your signed scorpions . Pm me if that is possible....... regards Chris
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Padgey
Industry Member Power Lures Joined: 30 Jul 2010 Location: Nerang Status: Offline Points: 916 |
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I have only started to sell my lures this year and my price is $25.00 for larger and $20.00 for smaller,and i can not keep up with the orders that i`m getting,this year i have sold more than 150 lures and the people who are buying them are over the moon with the quality and finish,and the fish that they are catching with them,timber is better,cheers bryan. |
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dingo
Senior Member Joined: 07 Jan 2010 Location: Ormeau Status: Offline Points: 194 |
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I carve my own lures and have often wondered, what price if I were to sell?.
I carve from a block of red cedar that my late grandfather gave to me(priceless) and every piece is used.Carving, sanding, bibs, numerous undercoats, color, tow points, split rings,hooks. At what price? For now my enjoyment comes from using my own lures and having success. I don't own any Powell lures yet and I think they look great. If I were to buy one regardless of use I would expect to pay for the effort put into that lure. Only Travis can judge that. |
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gdm
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River Rover
Senior Member Joined: 04 Jan 2011 Location: Aberglasslyn Status: Offline Points: 753 |
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I have to say Travers is actually short of the money on this one as I have over recent months been restocking my lure making gear and new paints to make some lures again and if you add up all the little touches from the shed that have been accumulated over the years I am not sure that 12 to 15 dollars actually covers costs and that in NO way includes any labour component in the costing. To add these totals may well scare a lot of us out of the game or if our better halves had the figures heaven knows what may happen. Stick with it Travers I respect your works of art and as art are worth what people are willing to pay
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David
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Padgey
Industry Member Power Lures Joined: 30 Jul 2010 Location: Nerang Status: Offline Points: 916 |
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Like i said in the post i put up, i can get $25.00 a lure and i`ve been making lures for 3 years,selling for 5 months,Travers should be able to sell his for heaps if a time factor comes in to it,but i sell mine to fishermen,who use the lures to catch fish and you cannot put a price on that,even at $25.00 a lure i`m only working for about 7 to 8 dollars an hour,but i like making them and catching fish with the lures that i have made,and a major injury 6 years ago left me with not much of a work choice,a part from working for myself at home,fishermen don`t seem to care what the cost as long as it works and catches fish as long as the better half don`t find out.People pay $25 to 30 dollars for 40mm bits of mass produced plastic with no heart or soul (or blood sometimes)that goes into making the hand made lures,it might sound a bit strange but every lure that i make i dont really want to sell it when its finished,but i do,cheers bryan.
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doccod
LureLovers.com Fanatic B.J.'s Spinnerbaits Joined: 07 Feb 2010 Location: Harrington, N.S Status: Offline Points: 1324 |
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Well I'm glad we've worked that one out now for my original question travers are you constructing the 75mm metal bibbed scorpions again and if so How much dollars for one or two???? I understand your strapped for time and do not wish to go back into scorpion territory full time so thats why I'm after only the one /two regards B.J.
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Benparto88
Unverified New Member Joined: 14 Jul 2019 Location: Inverell Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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Sorry to bring up an old post guys, but would this happen to be one of those little tiny fellas? |
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Ducks
LureLovers.com Fanatic Joined: 24 Feb 2012 Location: Point Clare Status: Offline Points: 2141 |
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That's a plastic (injection moulded) scorpion from rmg.
I've picked up a few lately quite cheaply. I'll be fishing them. |
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Cranky
Member Joined: 15 May 2020 Location: Woywoy Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Very nice Lures do you want to sell any of them?
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ArdentAngler
Senior Member Joined: 21 Aug 2013 Location: usa,washington Status: Offline Points: 284 |
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The whole pricing of handcrafted lures is both a controversial and cryptic topic. Like Padgey, River rover, and Dingo noted, the cost in materials and time alone push lures well beyond $12-$15 range. I believe the crux of this dilemma is edifying the average consumer what goes into a lure. In my personal opinion you can’t empathize the trials and tribulations unless you step in their shoes and make a few lures yourself. Travers Methodology hits it right on the head, if only more people got on board.
To touch on this subject, Powelly’s kit is an awesome idea that would give the insight which is so lacking outside this community. The simplicity of making a basic lure allows the mind to burgeon past that stagnant state. Everything he teaches outlines the work it takes for one ruddy lure. I truly doubt that an individual would moan about forking over $30 or more if they made one themselves. Taking this one step further, I was fortunate enough to get some lessons from Ollie in carving his cray…which I will take to my grave. Nope, wouldn’t want his job! The chops it takes is too much to produce that likeness is beyond me. Don’t know what he charges, but you have to be insane to complain. Same goes for Powelly, a while back he instructed me on carving a scorpion. These guys along with many others on this site give you your money’s worth and then some. As for the murky waters, well…I believe pricing should be evaluated in accordance to materials, time, and fastidious attention to detail/effort. The carvers who create a highly intricate lure that functions as well as it looks deserve a bit more for their effort. You are paying for a handmade lure after all, and something that can be easily be displayed without looking tacky, well that’s hard to price. The guys on LL are top notch to say the least. Here in the states we have few carvers, and the majority pump out basic shapes. Not to say they aren’t making high quality lures, but it’s more of a lack of imagination. That could very well be the market, there are so many nuances that effect it that this is a really hard topic to pin down. I am very interested in this topic as my materials, time and labor put me in a hole. My interest lies in the hobbyist who sells a few to recoup the tools/materials on their investment, or to make a bit of side cash. Mentioned this before, I have little interest in making a lure business or competing with the big dogs who carved out a niche long before me. On top of the work these guys do, the amount of hustling, sitting at booths to sell their product goes vastly unnoticed. To them I tip my hat. That’s more headaches than I can bear, so I wouldn’t dare steal food off their table. For me it’s about building a better lure and my honing skills, with a tinge of creating my own unique niche in this community. By no means do I imply that the good folk on LL behave or think in this manner. I believe the community on here is well educated and breeds a great standard of ethics in general. I think the main point of this post is that the average bloke outside won’t pay x price. Adding my 2 cents, selling lures can be like pulling stubborn teeth. The only individuals who chafe me are the low ballers who want, but can’t afford. A stereotype casted in frustration, thriving on derogatory insults to drive down the cost and effort of one’s work. These guys wouldn’t like it if you walked in their business and did the same thing to them. Sorry, $10-$20 doesn’t cover the materials, nor the time. Guess that would be like some bloke saying to Shane Love I’ll give you $13 for that hand carved lure, but no more. Don’t think that would end well for the random bloke? I’m not on par with Shane, or a lot of the guys on here, but like most of you I put the time and effort in and hope to get better than average. Even at minimum wage my time alone would drive up the value past a big box store. I am confident that my lures would beat mass produced plastic any day along with the other gents on here. |
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horrorhead
LureLovers.com Fanatic LureLover of the Year 2020 Joined: 14 Jun 2011 Location: Cooktown qld Status: Offline Points: 14025 |
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Well put Ardent Angler
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Martin-
you don't havta be pretty to fish |
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