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Bouyancy probs

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paulo View Drop Down
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    Posted: 16 Oct 2012 at 11:11am
G'Day,
 
I've just started moulding some bass minnows using Easycast resin and Q Cel for bouyancy, but I am having trouble getting enough Q cel in the mix without making the resin too thick to pour. I am mixing the Q cel in each part of resin before combining part A and Part B as per the Barnes video, but to get the lures to float I think I must need to put more in, but the resin then becomes fairly thick. Maybe I might have more success with a fatter style of lure? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
Thanks,
Paul
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Mcleod View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mcleod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2012 at 1:27pm
Paul,
 
Starts getting bit like pooring concrete and not easy to get into the mould. I was having similar problems myself so started thinking of other options. Main issue I found was that pooring into a mould for smaller bream / bass lures was just not feasible so I moved away from that and started working on two piece lures and no q-cells.
 
I think, but dont know, most commercial moulded lures are made from expanding foam PU and not rigid PU. Rigid PU has a density of at least 1 meaning it will sink like a stone straight off the bat. Foams vary but they are far less than 1 so you are already on the front foot. I have never tried them but am going to eventually.
 
As for how to solve your problem, the only thing I can suggest is to make the pooring spout wider. When testing in medicine cups the lowest density I could achieve with rigid PU was 0.5 but that was like peanut butter.
 
If you solve it let me know, would be very interested. Hopefully more experienced moulders than myself can chime in.
 
Angus
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pearcey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2012 at 7:06pm
hello paul use a syringe to inject the easy cast and spheres into the mould , pour part a and part b into the syringe add spheres mix with a plastic stick for about 20 secs and inject into the mould , no need to add spheres into part a and b separately you may need to add a short bit of drinking straw to the syringe nozzle to make sure its injected into the mould properly hope this helps , pearcey
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Viper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2012 at 7:30pm
Paulo, you can obtain another product from the same distributer called TC 812 which is a filled eurethane and turn out very boyant ,just mix part A and B by weight as suggested on the instructions, hope this helps,Shane
Fishing ??? Lets do it !!!!!!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dalbykayakin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2012 at 7:50pm
I used to use micro balloons done the job for me.
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Bad Dad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bad Dad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 2012 at 7:21am
Paul, +1 to what has already been written if you can make the pouring spout a little larger and mix the q cell into the premixed part A and B (not separately) it will still thicken up but you will have a better chance of getting the desired amount in. That has helped me with my moulds. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hobiepaulo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2012 at 10:17pm
I have also started pouring my own and just finished my third mould. I came to the same conclusion as you Paul. I put in the max amount of qcel and the lure still sank. I have experimented with capped lengths of drinking straws inside the lure. The airpocket gives the lure the right weight and buoyancy but if you dont get it centred right the lure kicks out at anything over 3 knots.

I havent found the right formula yet and have just switched to clear resin with a 3 hour pot life.
That should solve the other problem too. Even though I mixed the qcell into parts A and B whilst they were still separated the qcell accelerates the go-off time reducing a 4min pot life down to two. I suspect the shorter potlife also contributed to the thickening of the mixture making it harder to pour.
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paulo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2012 at 4:33pm
Thanks guys,
 
Thought of using a syringe to pump it in. I did enlarge the pouring hole and introduced a breather hole to the mould. This helped a bit, though the lure is still only just buoyant. Maybe the filled eurethanemight be the answer. I'll keep at it, or maybe I might perfect some nice easy-casting (throwing) sinking lures! Just trying to satisfy my 6 year old's lure fishing obsession. When $2.50 worth of homemade lure stays in a tree, it won't hurt so much! Plus, he has a page full of designs and custom paintjobs lined up for me already!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote puglee62 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2012 at 5:49pm
it sounds to me like you boys are'nt putting enough qcells in the mix and also mixing for too long,you got to mix like the bejaesus once a and b are mixed together and then get it poured as quick as you can, big sprues definately help too. good luck to you
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bushwacker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2014 at 12:17pm
O'K .... I'm having the same issues... I am refrigerating part a and b for 10 min before i pour to help prolong the gel time but is still gelling on me halfway through the pour... Syringing it in would get pretty laborious.

Have widened the pouring holes but as soon as an air pocket catches in the spout its game over.

Will try make pour holes wider if that does not work ill trash the easy cast and switch to a expanding foam.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flyonline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2014 at 1:18pm
I always intended to try some Rotomoulding, but somehow never got round to it. That way, you could just use straight resin without having to stuff about with fillers and thus loosing time and increasing the viscosity. You would also be able to use just about any type of hook hanger from through wire to 8's, plus pin bibs etc. etc.

With a bit of practice and consistency, it should be possible to turn out near identical lures fairly easily and do multiple pieces in one go.



Bushwacker do you have a vent hole and a pour hole? If you're trying to pour and vent through the same hole it can be difficult. The vent hole doesn't have to be big, air can come out a lot quicker than you can pour the urethane in.

Syringing is pretty easy, you just have to be quick and have a syringe much bigger than the volume of resin you're using.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote puglee62 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2014 at 1:36pm
I tap the smaller molds on the bench after putting the resin in, this helps the air bubbles escape
that's no how ye make porridge!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mcleod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2014 at 2:47pm
Bushwacker,
This is just my opinion but ditch the easy cast. It sets up way too quickly. There are plenty of resins to try but look for one which has similar hardness, as low viscosity as possible and higher setup times. The lower the viscosity the easier it will be to poor with micro balloons in it.
 
I have also found that adding microballoons speeds up the setting process for any resin, as such the longer set-up time the better. There are plenty out there with gel times about 7 minutes which is heaps of time for what I need to do.
Angus
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bushwacker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2014 at 7:25pm
Thanks for the tips and ideas guys ...

Will probly move towards a foam now....
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flyonline View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flyonline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2014 at 1:44pm
The two foams I tried weren't strong enough, and I had trouble getting a constant cure/expansion. I'm sure it'd be fine for small trout sized lures but for bigger fish I was never confident enough to use them.

Someone here (sorry can't remember who...) suggested curing them in a pressure pot to keep the conditions the same each time.

Still gunna have to build a rotomold at some stage.....
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