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wahootim View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wahootim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2012 at 7:45pm
Thats the go Jas, good excuse for a fish, gotta test new luresBig smileLOL, its funny how the run in a tide can affect lures. Tim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chooka44 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2012 at 9:21pm
Originally posted by Nicho Nicho wrote:

thats basically what i try to achieve tim......I test all my lures in real life by fishing them, and only continue with lures that consistently work for me when the times are hard.
When first testing, and then again before i send a lure out......each one is tested.....first in my small tank...(bath in the gardenSmile)......i use a 500 length of line screwed on the end of a paintbrush.......i run the lure slow.....then fast as possible.....all different paces watching the lure to see if theres any deviation.
If Im happy I continue whatever needs finishing.
Then the neighbours pool gets a work out.....I put the lure in the water and get it to depth then run flatout along the pool keeping tension......if they dont blow out then im happy.
I do this with EVERY lure........ive found that lures towed from the bib (omega clip) can be done this way with confidence, but lures towed from the nose point can at times be more prone to roll up when speed increases  eg trolling ....and may need more adjustment outside of a test tank.......BUT I do run fast! so anyone trolling faster than i can run is going too fast to be a decent fisherman....LOL.....unless your chasing marlin or tuna etc.
 
thats just what ive noticed from my own trial and errors.
 
Jas


500 in my opinion isn't anywhere near long enough. Why you may ask? Good I'm you did!

The drag coercion factor of line out plays a much larger part in reality than a 500 test factor.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigriver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2012 at 10:11pm
Originally posted by wahootim wahootim wrote:

Puglee, The hardest one is to get a lure to swin straight when you cast across the current as we mostly do when snag bashining, running them faster in the test tank may help to get the better,if they hold in the water the faster you swim/test them the better. Tim
Tim unfortunately speed of retrieve has little to do with how a lure will behave crosscurrent or even down or up current. A lure swims side to side by an even amount of water pressure flowing over the bib, as the pressure becomes too much on one side, the lure turns away, then pressure will push it back the over way and so on. The problem with current is it puts and uneven and distorted pressure over the lure. As a general rule of thumb tight action lures will handle cross current better, as will small bibbed lures towed from the body.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nicho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2012 at 5:28am
hi chooka,
no 500 isnt long enough.....but the bath is not 10 mts deepSmile and not suitable for cast and retrieve.
As i mentioned this is a quick easy way for me to test if im heading in the right direction.....it gives me an indication of where im headin re; action.... before continuing with a new shape.
 From there its either actually fishing the lures myself, which i do regulary in many different types of locations....both salt/fresh/deep/shallow/floods you name it i will fish it if time allows..... or a series of retrieves speeds etc in the neighbours  pool.....till Im happy.
 
sorry if you misinterpreted what i said in the previous post.
Jas
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CaptainCranky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2012 at 6:46am
Bigriver is spot on with the current and turbulance issue.As a charter Captain for many years I have seen first hand what a Prop Wash can do to a perfectly tuned lure and it is the same in rivers and creeks with flow and Eddies going in all directions.
Good to see this topic has brought out some of the finer details re Hydro Dynamics in lures.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote puglee62 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2012 at 7:09am
Originally posted by Bigriver Bigriver wrote:

Originally posted by wahootim wahootim wrote:

Puglee, The hardest one is to get a lure to swin straight when you cast across the current as we mostly do when snag bashining, running them faster in the test tank may help to get the better,if they hold in the water the faster you swim/test them the better. Tim
Tim unfortunately speed of retrieve has little to do with how a lure will behave crosscurrent or even down or up current. A lure swims side to side by an even amount of water pressure flowing over the bib, as the pressure becomes too much on one side, the lure turns away, then pressure will push it back the over way and so on. The problem with current is it puts and uneven and distorted pressure over the lure. As a general rule of thumb tight action lures will handle cross current better, as will small bibbed lures towed from the body.
hmm thats true and i guess water quite often swirls doesnt it?,maybe in situations where a diving lure becomes unbalanced a spinnerbait or soft plastic might be the better option?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pearcey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2012 at 7:54am
theres so many different aspects in lure actions i wonder what a hot an tot would do in a cross current would it pop out or go the other way just a thought from a old lure maker, pearcey
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tooch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2012 at 9:27am
Hi George and all the guys who have commented,I spend 3 to 4
weeks every year doing research and developement with my lures
so that I can assure my customers are getting a product that will
catch fish for them in all situations..I have a small test tank that I
test in only for the simple reason to see if they swim straight...but
when you test in the feild you get more of an Idea how your lures
are going perform. for that reason I am always either revamping my lures or tweaking
them so that they do exactly what I want them to do just for customer satisfaction.
If there's one thing I hate it's dissatisfied customers as it gives me and my business a bad name..WinkWinkWink
also most of the big lure companies that are producing thousands of lures at a time
can't guarantee that every one of their lures will swim to thier expectations simply because
of the time factor etc. so for my two cents worth I think the small companies such as
myself and many of the others are producing better lures that will catch fish because we care about
our product and put in the hard yards to make sure our customers are satisfied with our product..
any way thanks for putting up the thread george in my opinion anglers should be looking for quality
and not quantity...ClapClapClapClapClap...Pete.
I'd rather be fishing with





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote puglee62 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2012 at 11:57am
well put young PeteThumbs Up
o.k i'm going to throw another angle into this ,now lures are supposed to basically imitate bait fish and Tim was saying he'd like a lure that tracked straight when pulled across the current BUT how does a baitfish swim across current? does it swim straight ? and do larger baitfish swim across the current different to smaller ones?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pearcey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2012 at 12:54pm
thats a very good question chris the smaller bait fish would get washed into the eddies id think thats why we lure fish the eddies being tropical, sub tropical or temperate thats why we fish different lures for different fish species but its all relevent , pearcey
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nicho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2012 at 4:21pm
At the end of the day Im sure anyone who makes lures whether for passion or profit, would no doubt do their best to ensure that what they are making is a good product to the best of their ability.......to please themselves and consumers.
I think blueys intention was simply to give those that have, or do at times, become complacent....a bit of a nudge.
 
tim,
I fish my local creeks and river a lot when in flood, often on foot, casting from one bank to the other to reach the back of the eddies, or behind larger structure...but once the lure reaches the main stream, or the line gets taken away with the current......Ive never seen a lure that swims straight across.....its not possible.
This is where the spinnerbaits or plastics can be useful as chris suggested.....
though most fish will be in the eddies or hiding behind structure avoiding the current.....only darting out when a small baitfish gets sucked past.......with the exception of trout maybe, but same thing youd cast to them..... not try and bring the lure across them.....as the lure just gets dragged sideways.
Jas
Nichos Maulers Homemade timber lures....THEY CATCH FISH!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shayned Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2012 at 5:20pm
And not to forget why we love hand carved timber lures, no matter how careful you are and how much testing you do, every now and again one of the little buggers just seems to take more fish than their brethren. Then you drive yourself nuts trying to work out why, or drive yourself nuts trying to get the damn thing back off of a fisho so you can work out why.Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hazmail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2012 at 8:18pm
 

George, you have started something hereLOL, some great constructive replies too—I appreciate your frustration but if they / we could make a few lures to do everything, half the lure racks in BCF and elsewhere would be empty – even the $28 Japanese plastics usually need a tweak if you rip them fast enough, some even need major surgery, so as a lot of the makers replies are saying there is only so much you can do with one lure in a pool, or in my case a bath tub

Pictured below are six lures made from ONE 8cm template, each weighted, beveled, hinged, OR turned upside down to get some of the characteristics I / you need, they range in weight from about 10 to about 15grams, depending on what I want them to do---nothing is easy.

  
Shallow-about 2.4M- tight wobble - Rainbow Trout and Bream                                          
 
Deep-about 5 M  - wide wobble--Brown Trout, Flathead and Bream
 
 
Surface to about 20cm - very neutral sway--Flathead over weed beds
 
Surface to about 30cm - Slow (enticingWink) sway--Flathead over weed beds.
 
 
 
Neutral to sinking--snake like action, in fact looks like a fish swimming -  takes many hours to make Confused.
Flathead love these any depth.
 
Note: true 'swim baits', Don't have bibs and DO need STRONG hinges.
 
 
 
 
I suppose this is a "twitch bait" - Surface zig zag action with a bubble trail - Again same template turned upside down, made out of 'Expanded PVC' - Bream like them but they seem to be a bit too big to chew, Bass would love them.
 
 Good point Chris "fish swimming across the current", currents are their world, they don't wast energy swimming across anything, they use the current to get where they want to be,, same as their prey.
We have all watched Trout, Bream, Blackfish (because they are easyLOL) gliding behing rocks, logs, using the pressure waves to stay just where they need to be at no cost energy wise, it's their world.
Pete
   'RAYNA' ---Free Range Lures
peterayn@yahoo.com.au
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nicho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2012 at 9:29pm
twitch bait to pomona please peteThumbs Up
stunning as usual mate all of them......NOT MADE IN CHINAWink
Nichos Maulers Homemade timber lures....THEY CATCH FISH!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ringo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2012 at 12:32am
Pete, those lures are stunning.  I've never used an emoticon before but this seems like an appropriate time Clap.  I am continually amazed at the creative skills of the lure makers on this site.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote puglee62 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2012 at 1:00am
Ringo you should see Petes lures in real life they're even beter than the pictures66
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote barneyminno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2012 at 8:32am
Just saw this very interesting thread.

l think the original intent of Blueys post was simply to ask luremakers to thoroughly test their lures. Very reasonable suggestion lol.

As for types of lures , and fishing 'methods' , they are as varied as the anglers who use them. lt took me years to work out that a 4" shallow diving lure 'twitched'  , paused , and slow-rolled along mudbanks , around mangrove flats , and into small 'drains' was a very productive way to catch barra. Prior to this l simply rolled them back to the boat like an idiot LOL

lt is simply not possible , no matter how 'specialised' or 'home-made custom' a luremaker is , to cater for every need for every angler.  Way too much variation there. The best l can do , personally , is to aim for the middle ground and try to make a lure that does what 'most' fishers would expect it to do.

Some river Cod fishermen like a lure that is VERY bouyant , so that the lure will 'back-off' snags. Others like a heavier lure with a wide metal bib , to bounce the lure OVER the snag. Some like a moderate action , some like a very slow action. Some like green , some like an exact size [eg: 75mm] , some like a medium depth , rather than a very deep diver , some like black trebles , some like nickel , some like bronze , some like galv wire towing , somelike clips.....
You get the idea. So  much variation is very difficult to accomodateSmile

One of my best customers [meaning: someone who has bought a LOT of lures from me ] , is very forthcoming when he trials one of my lures. His feedback is exceptional.  Very lucid and altruistic. He understand that sometimes it can be very difficult to make a lure do a particular 'thing' , and aslo understands that often a luremaker has to work toward a 'general application' , if for no other reason than to maintain sanity LOL 

l have seen people use lures who just wound the lure back the the rod. Over and over. l have seen people try to do things with lures they were simply NOT made to do. And then l have seen some  , vastly superior casters and anglers to myself , that can do things with lures and fish them in such a way that like a lightning bolt , you have a revelation of understanding ! LOL

As for luring in 'strong' side currents , l openly admit that a herring pattern i make will turn over a little in a strong outgoing tide. So l alter my attack on the snag , when l can , or change to a slim bodied lure. Slim bodied lures cope with this much better , hence Nils and Rapalas , and many Japanese 'slim minnows' that were made specifically for fishing fast flowing rivers for trouts etc. They are 'purpose built'.

ls that 2cents worth? LOL

Barney.






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CaptainCranky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2012 at 9:21am
Well put Barney and answered towards what George was originally prompting and choosing of the word altruistic with feedback was spot on.Hmmmm even though I had to look up the definition in the Webster.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2012 at 9:46am
Hi All
great lot of information from lure makers, strange that the biggest problem lure makers have is people want a lure that does everything,, you guy's need new customersLOL
 
who actually changes the bib in a halco ect rather than buy a deep and a shallow lure?
you can test a lure in a pool ect for swim and action, all the big boy's do
some mates still have boxes of timber lures, cads,200's,vipers,cobra's,moller,leads, ect ect
these are in there fishing boxes we have fished them all and the balance action ratio is very different
timber Stumjumper,Aussie 200 (yellow/black), moller, were just some that swam for there intended use
the balance of a timber stumpy in the water is awsome, front treble is perfectly still as lure swims through the water very well balanced lure
 
but you guy's are the makers, hope you all swam some of your own lures
and cheers for your repliesSmile
 
regards George
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote muckawa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2013 at 8:47pm
Originally posted by hazmail hazmail wrote:

 

George, you have started something hereLOL, some great constructive replies too—

Picture, hinged, OR turned 

  
Shallow-about 2.4M- tight wobble - Rainbow Trout and Bream                                          

 
Deep-about 5 M  - wide wobble--Brown Trout, Flathead and Bream
 
 
Surface to about 20cm - very neutral sway--Flathead over weed beds

 
Surface to about 30cm - Slow (enticingWink) sway--Flathead over weed beds.
 
 
 
Neutral to sinking--snake like action, in fact looks like a fish swimming -  takes many hours to make Confused.
Flathead love these any depth.
 
Note: true 'swim baits', Don't have bibs and DO need STRONG hinges.
 
 
 
wow what a bauitiful finish on the first lure, is that oak underneath 
what is your clear coat please
how do you make strong hinges
last winter i made about twenty stump jumpers copies with brought plastic bibs  , prone to break
they all had to be tuned , 
 made them from hard wood spotted gum , strong as , sinking , work well on the cast
on a 12 foot beach rod , can cast them a long way , let them sink to the bottom with bait on the front hook ,the give the rod a short jerk , sends a big pulse from the lure too the rod, along purse ,they do what i expect, catch fish and the bottom in twenty metres ,added more lead behind the tow point. too get them deep, plastic jig heads do this
spinner  baits do this well too
knowing how to tune a lure makes a big difference to its balance
my surface lures sink,outside the square
only problems are , cause the weight is in the head they land bib first causing the line to catch the hooks, stopping the lure before it hits the water fixes this
had to move the front hook forward to stop trebles from locking together,
as all you lure makers know it takes some development , to make a good lure,not just a outstanding paint job,until you make your own , your not in the same league,
 expert , learn how too tune a lure  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mal Vader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2013 at 10:52pm
muckawa, they're beautiful. Clap
Top shelf paintwork
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beer-breath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2015 at 4:32am
Originally posted by puglee62 puglee62 wrote:



yup the boys are spot on George ,best to do as you were saying get em' off the wall and fish them and if possible test them in a pool that way you know what you've got from the getgo.by the way i'll have to get your adress off you mate i have some Barra /mackerel lures i would like you to test for meWink


this.
obviously not all lures will perform the same actions.

and like the op also mentioned, it's very important to test them in the real conditions they will be used in.
I know through the winter, I made quite a few plugs, and didn't test their actions at all.
now luckily, I've only had one lure that didn't have great swimming action, out of all the ones I'd previously made.
that must have made me too over-confident that they would all work well.
so the ones I was busy making through the winter, they all turned out really great, and after finishing the paintwork on them, naturally, I couldn't wait to get the clearcoat on them and have them finished.
but, what I should have done was taken them out and ran them. when I finally did, I had three that looked awesome in the hand, but didn't swim well at all. it could be location of the eye-screw or the misalignment of the cup on the front.
since then, I've made a note to slow down and be more careful in the carving of the face-cup to ensure it's straight alignment with the plug's body, and I try to take them out on the water and test their actions before I get too far into their build.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beer-breath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2015 at 4:33am
hmmm.
quoted the wrong post.
oh well.
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