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What is Ethical.

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Burleigh View Drop Down
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    Posted: 16 Nov 2015 at 11:36am
G'day all. In these days of rampant technology, 3D printers in particular, I was wondering how people feel about copying lures. Not for sale or profit, but to use privately. If you had a dynamite lure that was not available any more but the last remaining one was an absolute winner, how ethical would it be to use a 3D printer to copy, and then use, that particular lure. If the maker had passed away or ceased production for other reasons and you had made unsuccessful efforts to locate more of same would you see it as a breach of honour ( I guess ) or something else? When its all boiled down, the shapes of many, many lures are quite similar, so what is it that you are copying? The action, the weight, the size. Just wondering. I will be very interested in the responses. Cheers   Doc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horrorhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2015 at 11:44am
With so many generic shapes out there I couldn't see a problem. With a unique shape and no longer made - no worries.
Martin-

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rodsncods Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2015 at 11:51am
this has been around and around a few times, a lot of differing opinions and thoughts that will leave you right where you are now.....mick
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nutter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2015 at 12:37pm
As one who uses a 3D printer you would do well to copy a design without a 3D scanner. In my eyes its no different to making them out of timber. If its for personal use than so be it. Things get funny when your friends want them than their friends and next minute you are charging for them. 
Use/copy lures that work, learn why they work, than use those skills to create your own designs.
Thats my 2c
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hazmail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2015 at 6:27pm
Similar to what H.H, Mick and Nutter say---I think everyone probably starts out with a copy of something because we know it works.
Eventually you may get creative and suddenly your copy morphs into something that looks nothing like your favourite but still works--after a while you get to the stage where you can fashion something out of a stick and be 90% certain it will work no matter what shape it is---But someone will always accuse you of copying a stick.
Lay back with your Stanley knife and enjoy the journey.
Pete
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MadDogLures Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2015 at 8:25pm
Hi Doc, I design lures on paper first, I have been ask to make my lures with somebody else's name on them like ''Steve's Lures'' I told them to get (you know what!) Anyway if you copy a lure, I would try first if the lure maker is still around to ask them if it's ok and to me it's all about respect .
Happy Fishing my friendEmoticons


Cheer's
Dave
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horrorhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2015 at 6:27am
I used to think the Heddon Tadpolly was a unique design, then I found 3 other very similar designs that the manufacturer/s is/are still unidentified, as well as an Australian company and cheap Chinese knock offs.

I said to a lure maker once that if I was going to make a lure then I would pick a generic shape and alter it to swim how I wanted it to swim- but this could still end up very similar to somebody else's take on that same shape. It can be very hard not to step on a toe or 2 and some makers give their lure a feature, that does nothing to the lure's action but creates extra work, to distinguish theirs from others.
Martin-

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pearcey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2015 at 7:03am
Being a prolific lure designer over a period of 30 plus years i generally try to stay away from a lure shape that looks like some one elses lure , but some of my lure shapes are similar to other lures but not a copy being different in some way , i certainly would not copy a lure exactly, but that is my opinion for what it is worth , i can say some lure makers have had there lures copied and they have seen RED ,  cant say i blame them, get your own f------ shape mate, cant you make your own design they would say , personally i would carve out lures shapes that are different and stick different bibs in them until you get a lure with a fishy action , not that hard really with a bit of practice, cheers pearcey
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony Mc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2015 at 7:18am
How many Tigers are there?

IMHO as long as it is not being passed off as something it's not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horrorhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2015 at 7:51am
Originally posted by Tony Mc Tony Mc wrote:

How many Tigers are there?

IMHO as long as it is not being passed off as something it's not.

And who made the first tiger shape (not an Aussie). I have about 10 different tigers alone all made by different people / companies. Have a look at Nitro Matt's tiger display he had at the Lure Expo.

Yes as long as it's not being passed off as somebody else's lure AND Dave Pearce is also correct - there are other shapes still waiting to be designed and who wouldn't be stroppy if their design was copied exactly? But subtle changes can alter a lures action - the same lure made from different timbers can mean an ordinary lure or a great lure - or even the same timber but a different density. Peter Newell prefered the lighter coloured cedar for the action it gave his lures - as an example.

I have a few ideas with features on lures that I like that will set them aside from all other lures in those basic generic shapes- I just have to get around to making some - someday.
Martin-

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horrorhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2015 at 8:00am
P.S. (ain't gunna edit the above again). Lure makers changing from timber to molded often have to change their lure in some way to get the same action - or be satisfied with a different action and hope they don't lose customers.
Martin-

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony Mc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2015 at 10:35am
Exactly my point, Martin. Heddon made the first tiger, and I was wrapped in Matt's display at the expo.The Nils Master Invincible is another that has been done by many lure makers, from backyarders to professionals. If it works, it will be copied.
What's the saying, "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."
Cheers...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hazmail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2015 at 7:26pm
Originally posted by Tony Mc Tony Mc wrote:

Exactly my point, Martin. Heddon made the first tiger, and I was wrapped in Matt's display at the expo.The Nils Master Invincible is another that has been done by many lure makers, from backyarders to professionals. If it works, it will be copied.
What's the saying, "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."
Cheers...


"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.", don't know who said that but so true, so is "there is nothing new under the sun"    .
Pete
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horrorhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2015 at 7:01am
What is going to be very interesting, is where lure making and development is going to take us next?
Since I have been fishing, I have seen the emergence of the soft plastics in the Mr Twisters (or re-emergence so it seems) and then the re-emergence of soft plastics again in all of the other brands and SP styles. The emergence of blades, deep water jigs, octi-jigs and of spinnerbaits.

The shapes in hard bodies that I have seen that have become generic are the prawns and kadaitcha possibly more will come to mind when my brain wakes up once the caffeine hits itLOL.

What shapes in the future are going to become generic? 

Those people making new designs, new features or methods in making lures out of what ever materials have my respect. Without them lure making would not advance.
Martin-

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lofty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2015 at 7:05am
I think the sincerest form of flattery was coined by people who tried to make there own lure ,couldnt and then copied some one elses. To be fair dinkum I think we all started our trade learning off other peoples lures and used them. but you move away from this and have your own ideas


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lure-Nut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2015 at 7:51am
If you have fished confidently with a lure for years and years and had tremendous success with it and it was on it's last legs and there were simply no more available, I can understand how you'd be tempted to copy it for your own personal fishing's sake.

Then again, how good is it to lock away those memories and start a new voyage of discovery and come up with your own lure that achieves the same level of success - it not about time or cost, but reward LOL 

No better feeling and you've still got the memories Tongue 



Cheers

Rob

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lofty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2015 at 8:45am
Well saidClap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote puglee62 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2015 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by Lure-Nut Lure-Nut wrote:

If you have fished confidently with a lure for years and years and had tremendous success with it and it was on it's last legs and there were simply no more available, I can understand how you'd be tempted to copy it for your own personal fishing's sake.

Then again, how good is to to lock away those memories and start a new voyage of discovery and come up with your own lure that achieves the same level of success - it not about time or cost, but reward LOL 

No better feeling and you've still got the memories Tongue 



Cheers

Rob

Rob you've hit the nail on the head right there
that's no how ye make porridge!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cachnrelese Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2015 at 3:00pm
What do you guys think about the Timber Rob Gaden RMG's that are obviously recently produced on the bay at the moment?  My opinion is that somebody is cashing in on the naive.
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