Lure strength |
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Danny
Senior Member Joined: 26 Mar 2016 Location: Weipa Status: Offline Points: 653 |
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Posted: 11 Mar 2017 at 6:40pm |
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Hey fellas,
I had my first lure fail last weekend and it's got me questioning a few things. I had a pinned bib pull out while I was tightening a loop knot. The bib broke behind the pin and pulled out. I did get the bib from a mate and I'm pretty sure it was polycarbonate but I may have also drilled the pin hole too close to the back of the bib, leaving not much meat. The last 12 months my other lures have been tested on some good fish which have stretched heavy duty split rings and twisted up 3&6x VMC hooks but I havnt broken one bib or pulled out a twisted wire or straightened any omega clips. There was even a stingray I foul hooked that was every bit the width and length of my 4.6m boat (Anyone who's visited the gulf will know the ones I mean) I seal my lures with norglass penetrating wood sealer which is a 2pac epoxy and it does clearly say that it should be applied after gluing, filling and sanding but after I swim and check them I seal, prime, paint, glue, then clear. Should I consider changing my process that will see me drilling wire holes and bib slots after sealing allowing the glue to bite into fresh timber or do you think this might be an isolated failure? My lures are white beech but the particular lure that pulled the bib may have been a piece of pine, glue is 24hr arildite and the bib had a 3-4mm glue hole. Cheers Dan |
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Dan
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horrorhead
LureLovers.com Fanatic LureLover of the Year 2020 Joined: 14 Jun 2011 Location: Cooktown qld Status: Offline Points: 14025 |
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Do you also drill other holes in the bib so the glue forms "pins" of dried glue as well. Les Barlow drills 3 holes to form these "glue pins" and his bibs (or beaks as he calls them) don't pull out.
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Martin-
you don't havta be pretty to fish |
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Danny
Senior Member Joined: 26 Mar 2016 Location: Weipa Status: Offline Points: 653 |
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The bibs I usually use have a 6-7mm hexagon glue hole in them and then once set, the next day I'll drill and pin then. The particular bib in question had a 5mm glue hole that I may have put in it, I can't recall. Another thing I left out was the lure had caught fish previously.
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Dan
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puglee62
Stall Holder Fugly Lures Joined: 03 Feb 2010 Location: ipswich Status: Offline Points: 7939 |
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some polycarbonates get brittle with araldite mate,i recon your usual bibs are good ones(makrolon?) but i think the one your friend gave you was a lesser quality low UV job.a similar thing happened to me when i used a bib cut by a different company to what i usually use(can pm you the brand if you like).Bloke had just landed a 59cm bass when the bib snapped off ,i'm pretty sure the araldite+the crappy polycarb were the culprit
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that's no how ye make porridge!
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Danny
Senior Member Joined: 26 Mar 2016 Location: Weipa Status: Offline Points: 653 |
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Yeah ok, that's interesting. Send me a pm. I will have to catch up with my friend and find out where they came from.
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Dan
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horrorhead
LureLovers.com Fanatic LureLover of the Year 2020 Joined: 14 Jun 2011 Location: Cooktown qld Status: Offline Points: 14025 |
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Interesting Mr Sinclair. That is something I would not have suspected and a potential trap for anybody using poly bibs.
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Martin-
you don't havta be pretty to fish |
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Blinky
Stall Holder Blinky's Lures Joined: 14 Nov 2011 Location: Darwin. N.T. Status: Offline Points: 741 |
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I have heard of araldite no agreeing with polycarb but only on really old, sun affected stuff. All my bibs are polycarbonate glued with 24 hr Araldite, I really score up the bibs on the section that will hold the glue and always run a file through the bib slot prior to gluing to ensure it's clean fresh timber. Not a big fan of putting holes in bibs to give plugs of glue, they just make shear points in my opinion......the only holes I drill are for the pins. Also not a big fan of White Beech due to its "greasiness" which I feel doesn't hold glue as well as some other timbers, hence 99% of mine are in WRC.
I've stretch my lures pretty seriously during testing in a controlled environment and also on some fairly serious fish, had no failures when I've been on the end and have not heard of any failures from other users. Just my two bobs worth. |
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samurai
Stall Holder JaySea Lures Joined: 08 May 2012 Location: Sunshine Coast Status: Offline Points: 900 |
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I have been using Araldite for gluing bibs made from all sorts of materials including poly, steel, s/steel and alloy (among other strange materials) for over thirty years and have never had a bib come out or break nor have I ever had any reports of bib problems from anyone who has used lures made by me. I have used Araldite on timber, moulded and plastic lures. For the last six months I have been experimenting with removing the plastic moulded bibs on plastic lures from China and replacing them with poly bibs cut and shaped by myself then using Araldite to fit the poly bibs, so far the results and strength testing have been great.
I would seriously doubt that your problem has anything to do with Araldite. But hey that's just my two bobs worth Cheers Warren
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Any Brand Of Lure Is Only As Good As The Fishermen Using It.
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Danny
Senior Member Joined: 26 Mar 2016 Location: Weipa Status: Offline Points: 653 |
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When you say you've never had a bib pull out, have you ever tried to physically pull one out. Are your bibs glued in so strong that you wouldn't be able to pull a bib out if you tried. I was fairly swinging off this lure when I was tightening the loop knot but doubt I would be putting 150kg plus weight on it but maybe.
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Dan
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Nicho
Stall Holder Nichos Maulers Joined: 25 Feb 2010 Location: POMONA QLD Status: Offline Points: 8752 |
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Sheet happens danny....i wouldnt worry too much mate...maybe just an oversite when glueing and one got missed or partially missed.
I think some of the instant super glue type lures can make poly brittle. |
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Nichos Maulers Homemade timber lures....THEY CATCH FISH!
YA DONT KNOW...IF YA DONT GO...SO GET OUT THERE AND... FISH IT |
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puglee62
Stall Holder Fugly Lures Joined: 03 Feb 2010 Location: ipswich Status: Offline Points: 7939 |
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polycarbonate has a UV stabiliser added to it when its molded ,the amount of stabiliser added determines how brittle or flexible its going to be when subjected to heat or glues.i know this because i worked in a factory that made polycarbonates.polycarbonate bibs affected by glues has also been discussed on this forum before.I'm not saying anyone elses lures are no good I was just stating my opinion.as ive said before i usually use makrolon polycarb in my bibs and have never had a problem with this product.just for the record ive been making lures since 1985
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that's no how ye make porridge!
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Nicho
Stall Holder Nichos Maulers Joined: 25 Feb 2010 Location: POMONA QLD Status: Offline Points: 8752 |
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When i used super glue ...loctite type glues i found that the poly would flash/change color instantly from clear to white where glue was applied...so like you said chris the glue/heat obviously reacts with poly in some way and probably some polys are more prone to this...
I had a bib pull out once but on inspection i found i forgot to glue it at all :) Frock me i said. |
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Nichos Maulers Homemade timber lures....THEY CATCH FISH!
YA DONT KNOW...IF YA DONT GO...SO GET OUT THERE AND... FISH IT |
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samurai
Stall Holder JaySea Lures Joined: 08 May 2012 Location: Sunshine Coast Status: Offline Points: 900 |
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When I make a lure I try to make them strong enough to catch the species the lure is aimed at, not what a human is likely to try and do to it. I doubt a Bass or a Flathead would be likely to put 150kg of pressure on a lure/bib aimed at that species, but then again maybe they grow bigger in some areas I think you get my drift (maybe) Then again, maybe there are lure users out there trying to catch Marlin on Bream lures! Cheers Samurai
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Any Brand Of Lure Is Only As Good As The Fishermen Using It.
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Danny
Senior Member Joined: 26 Mar 2016 Location: Weipa Status: Offline Points: 653 |
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Cheers fellas. Yeah trying not to get too hung up on it. Just want to make the best lure I can. I've had angry barra and threadies up to 90cm hang from them and had split rings stretch and hooks all twisted up so I have plenty of faith in the glue but was questioning my process. I'll be more careful from now on.
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Dan
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puglee62
Stall Holder Fugly Lures Joined: 03 Feb 2010 Location: ipswich Status: Offline Points: 7939 |
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that's no how ye make porridge!
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Blinky
Stall Holder Blinky's Lures Joined: 14 Nov 2011 Location: Darwin. N.T. Status: Offline Points: 741 |
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Actually I have tried to physically pull a bib out........and no I didn't pull a bib out, the Omega Clip failed (bent stainless wire type, not pressed type) I imagine I could possibly pull a bib out if I used a pressed Omega Clip, but I think the timber would fail before the actual glue parted company...... |
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puglee62
Stall Holder Fugly Lures Joined: 03 Feb 2010 Location: ipswich Status: Offline Points: 7939 |
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that's no how ye make porridge!
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Danny
Senior Member Joined: 26 Mar 2016 Location: Weipa Status: Offline Points: 653 |
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Wow it's good to know that you've tested them like that and they have survived. Good work.
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Dan
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Nicho
Stall Holder Nichos Maulers Joined: 25 Feb 2010 Location: POMONA QLD Status: Offline Points: 8752 |
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Nichos Maulers Homemade timber lures....THEY CATCH FISH!
YA DONT KNOW...IF YA DONT GO...SO GET OUT THERE AND... FISH IT |
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DocYarrum
Senior Member Joined: 22 Jul 2015 Location: Oakey Status: Offline Points: 223 |
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I have also heard of certain lure makers drilling a small hole slightly wider than the bib slot, across the body of the lure at the back of bib slot.
This basically creates a cavity for the glue to set behind the bib and form a plug to help add extra strength. Or so I am told, haven't tried it myself as yet! |
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Cheers,
Troy |
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Danny
Senior Member Joined: 26 Mar 2016 Location: Weipa Status: Offline Points: 653 |
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All faith has been restored in my lure strength after a friend today caught this 119cm beast. I'm going to chalk that one failure down to the fact that maybe I forgot to glue it. Haha.
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Dan
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Raffey
LureLovers.com Fanatic Joined: 16 Apr 2014 Location: Canberra, ACT Status: Offline Points: 1324 |
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Awesome Dan! What a beast! Well done mate,
Cheers, Danny. |
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Echo Lures
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horrorhead
LureLovers.com Fanatic LureLover of the Year 2020 Joined: 14 Jun 2011 Location: Cooktown qld Status: Offline Points: 14025 |
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you got to be happy with that, that fish would have pulled like a freight train.
Just remember, Marsha Brierman used 50 lb stand up gear to catch marlin over 1,000 lbs, more then 20 times the rating of her gear
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Martin-
you don't havta be pretty to fish |
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Danny
Senior Member Joined: 26 Mar 2016 Location: Weipa Status: Offline Points: 653 |
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Thanks Danny. Yeah it was a beast. Certainly didn't expect that Barra fishing.
I didn't know that about the marlin fishing but your 100% correct. Dan |
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Dan
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puglee62
Stall Holder Fugly Lures Joined: 03 Feb 2010 Location: ipswich Status: Offline Points: 7939 |
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thats a good chunk of fish,pretty good test for your lures thats for sure
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that's no how ye make porridge!
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Lwalker
Unverified New Member Joined: 22 Oct 2017 Location: Mildura Status: Offline Points: 2 |
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Hi guys, just wondering if anyone has a bib supplier that i can go to?
Ive ordered some alloy bibs but typically lures ive seen are poly of some sort. any assistance is appreciated, new to making lures. cheers.
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Danny
Senior Member Joined: 26 Mar 2016 Location: Weipa Status: Offline Points: 653 |
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Lazerworx has a standard catalogue of polycarbonate bibs available in 1,1.5 and 2mm and for a fee they will also take your design and make your own style of bib for you. There been very good to deal with.
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Dan
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fletch
LureLovers.com Fanatic Kuttafurra Lures Joined: 13 Nov 2010 Location: Bundalong Status: Offline Points: 2967 |
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I been investigating thos bib breaking for ages now .
I found out bayer joined up with another mob and their polycarb is being made . But they are recycling polycarb aswell. In full sheets you can have weak areas . No glue on surface . Still break . Divers break like acrylic in spots no where near where been glued . But also where glued . I had been talking with deaan at hubers for over a year saying these just keep breaking . In past could not break deans bibs at all. Notice last year or so bibs break all the time . Ive been breaking mine in checks once glued and now have a nice box full i need to bandsaw bibs out to reglue .. |
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Fish dont buy lures
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Danny
Senior Member Joined: 26 Mar 2016 Location: Weipa Status: Offline Points: 653 |
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Oh geez that sux. I’m amazed how many friends (fishing friends, not lure makers) bag out polycarbonate or what they call “plastic” bibs after a breakage or bad experience. All my bibs come from lazerworx and I’ve bent them back and forth and demonstrated their strength and yeah, it’s clear to see who has the better product. I know strength isn’t the be all and end all and it’s horses for courses,but when you have that metre+ Barra or cod on, for me IT MATTERS.
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Dan
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p.j.
Stall Holder P.J's Lures Joined: 06 Jan 2011 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 2941 |
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I have never clear coated my Lures after i glued the Poly Carbonate bib in with 2 part epoxy.
Always have a piece off card board instead. That gives me a handle when i am putting on clear cote and also i can put it in the clamp in my drying wheel
But recently i made some Lures off very old Bog Oak to fish with, and thought thy needed a bit more clear cote after the bibs was in. Used tape to cover the bib. But after the clear was cured, the surface off the bib was soft and i cud scrape a bit off with a nail. Don´t now if it was a combo off the glue from the tape and the clear cote, but it hardened up again after some time. Good thing thy are not towed from the bib, and I still have the possibility to catch a Fish on a Lure made off 2 to 3000 year old Wood |
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P.J. LURES
SO SMOKING HOT EVEN CUSTOM DOGS LIKE THEM |
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puglee62
Stall Holder Fugly Lures Joined: 03 Feb 2010 Location: ipswich Status: Offline Points: 7939 |
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Per i think any glue or clear would effect the strength of the bib to some extent,try rubbing a scrap piece of polycabonate with a rag soaked in acrylic lacquer paint thinner,i does not like it!.i usually fit my bibs after painting too mate Less chance of getting paint on the bib
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that's no how ye make porridge!
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rally44
Stall Holder Lee's Lures Joined: 22 Jan 2010 Location: townsville Status: Offline Points: 1817 |
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I concur Chris, only way to go. Cheers Richard.
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Dads in the shed making saw-dust again.
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