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Epoxy Issues

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Limber-timber View Drop Down
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    Posted: 03 Jun 2019 at 8:33pm
Hi all,
I know this is a problem that has been touched on a lot but after searching I can’t find the answer I’m after.

So after a year or two of using epoxy I have had some glory but mostly misery.
To the point I put it all aside for a bit and let my stress levels ease.

Since moving to the tropics I’m back to the same situation haha.
Im unsure if I can keep blaming it on the humidity or Epoxy I’m using.

I have mostly using “Norglass Liquid Glass”
As it’s relatively common to come across in my travels.
However I did get some “West System 105 & 207”

I’m still with the same problems I’ve had in the past.
I’ve changed paints thinking it may have been a reaction with the epoxy.
Didn’t change anything.

I’ve tried Metho and White Spirits to clean it down before coating.
Same deal.

Is someone able to tell me where I’m going wrong?

The photo is of the same lure. One side 95% happy the other side... the opposite.

Cheers,
Jake
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TJC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 2019 at 9:47pm
What paint are you using? Some paints react differently with various epoxies and clear coats. For example etex directly over createx paints tends to cause fish eyes for me. I now seal the createx with a single spray on on coat of automotive clear coat prior to 2 coats of etex and problem solved. Search for the engineered angler on YouTube, he does a few experiments on the clear coats he uses over various surfaces.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote puglee62 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2019 at 12:14am
fish eyes are usually caused by grease or silicones,they can even be caused by oils that occur naturally in your skin so wash your hands prior to handling .TJC 's  idea sounds pretty good ,i'd suggest an acrylic lacquer clear though as it dries very quickly
that's no how ye make porridge!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Danny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2019 at 3:40am
Hey Jake,
I think I experienced the same thing a few years back when I started making lures. From memory I think I had read somewhere that if you don't put the epoxy on thick enough initially,  it builds some sort of surface tension which doesn't let it come together if that makes sense, resulting in a similar effect to whats in your picture. Ill try find one of my first lures that suffered from this. I don't have any dramas anymore.
I brush a single coat of etex straight onto createx wicked water based paints.

Dan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Limber-timber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2019 at 6:11am
Originally posted by TJC TJC wrote:

What paint are you using? Some paints react differently with various epoxies and clear coats. For example etex directly over createx paints tends to cause fish eyes for me. I now seal the createx with a single spray on on coat of automotive clear coat prior to 2 coats of etex and problem solved. Search for the engineered angler on YouTube, he does a few experiments on the clear coats he uses over various surfaces.



I am using a few Createx Wicked opaques and the rest are Paasche.
I will have to have a look at getting a clear to hit over the top. It was just bugging me how 3 sides of the lure I was happy with it didn’t seem consistent enough to me. Have sanded back a few more and going to give them a coat this morning. Seeing how the epoxy settles over epoxy.

Thanks for your help
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Limber-timber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2019 at 6:14am
Originally posted by Danny Danny wrote:

Hey Jake,
I think I experienced the same thing a few years back when I started making lures. From memory I think I had read somewhere that if you don't put the epoxy on thick enough initially,  it builds some sort of surface tension which doesn't let it come together if that makes sense, resulting in a similar effect to whats in your picture. Ill try find one of my first lures that suffered from this. I don't have any dramas anymore.
I brush a single coat of etex straight onto createx wicked water based paints.

Dan


Hey Dan,

Your theory makes sense. Do you put a thick coat on to cover and then brush it off after a few minutes to leave a thin coat on?
I tried this lastnight after posting this up. They should be touch dry this morning so can see how they’ve gone.

Cheers,
Jake
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MadDogLures Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2019 at 8:48am
Originally posted by puglee62 puglee62 wrote:

fish eyes are usually caused by grease or silicones,they can even be caused by oils that occur naturally in your skin so wash your hands prior to handling .TJC 's  idea sounds pretty good ,i'd suggest an acrylic lacquer clear though as it dries very quickly

Spot on puglee, the more you handle the lure the worst it will be and if you have trouble with air bubbles use a vacuum chamber kit.


Cheers,
Dave
Life is fishing!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Limber-timber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2019 at 9:50am
Originally posted by MadDogLures MadDogLures wrote:

Originally posted by puglee62 puglee62 wrote:

fish eyes are usually caused by grease or silicones,they can even be caused by oils that occur naturally in your skin so wash your hands prior to handling .TJC 's  idea sounds pretty good ,i'd suggest an acrylic lacquer clear though as it dries very quickly


Spot on puglee, the more you handle the lure the worst it will be and if you have trouble with air bubbles use a vacuum chamber kit.
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Cheers,
Dave



The lures don’t get touched by bare hands after sanding the 2nd sealing coat.
After that it’s fresh powder free gloves and vice-grips on the through-wire.
They get rubbed with a 100% spirit twice to be sure and then they get the epoxy.
I’ve left the paint to dry for 48 hours before epoxy to hopefully rid of a chemical reaction there.
Hopefully this is enough

Cheers,
Jake
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Danny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2019 at 2:23pm

Does this look similar to what your experiencing Jake?
Dan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Danny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2019 at 2:41pm
Jake I had concerns about putting it on too thick but honestly, it never is. By thick I mean when I brush it I’m pushing epoxy around. I don’t tend to try and spread it when you can see the dry streak made when applying it. Perhaps because it is self levelling it just settles and gives an even coat and compensates for all the not so thick spots.
I massively over thought the whole process and was deterred by peoples comments about e tex being painful to use. I can see how it could be but.
I don’t wipe my lures with anything to clean, just my t shirt, I massively over handle them when doing eyes and applying my sticker so I’m probably pretty lucky I havn’t had the bad experiences that others have had.
I usually apply epoxy first thing in the morning or in the aircon because for most of the year it’s uncomfortably humid here.
Dan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Limber-timber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2019 at 5:27pm
Originally posted by Danny Danny wrote:

Jake I had concerns about putting it on too thick but honestly, it never is. By thick I mean when I brush it I’m pushing epoxy around. I don’t tend to try and spread it when you can see the dry streak made when applying it. Perhaps because it is self levelling it just settles and gives an even coat and compensates for all the not so thick spots.
I massively over thought the whole process and was deterred by peoples comments about e tex being painful to use. I can see how it could be but.
I don’t wipe my lures with anything to clean, just my t shirt, I massively over handle them when doing eyes and applying my sticker so I’m probably pretty lucky I havn’t had the bad experiences that others have had.
I usually apply epoxy first thing in the morning or in the aircon because for most of the year it’s uncomfortably humid here.


The Photo you posted was exactly what I am experiencing!
Due to working from 6-6 I am more reluctant to put a coat of epoxy in at night.
I woke up early this morning and scuffed a few troubled lures and coated them before heading off to work.
Just got in the door the check them and two of the three are near on flawless.
Only the one I posted photos of (which was the worst) has a few tiny areas that weren’t filled in on the original epoxy.

Could be putting it down to humidity as I can only count on both my hands the amount of clear sky days we’ve had here this year...

Thanks for your help mate.
Hopefully this is the start of a good run with epoxy :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Danny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jun 2019 at 7:25pm
Where do you live Jake? North or South? I've heard of people needing to heat epoxy to get it to a workable consistency. Perhaps I don't have any dramas where I am in far north QLD due to the heat, or more so the lack of cold. I would imagine that anywhere south of me would experience temps that would get well below 20 (we don't see to many days below 20) and down to 10,5 and freezing. I'm not an expert on anything epoxy but it might not "flow" as well in colder climates.
Dan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Limber-timber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2019 at 7:05am
I’m in Cooktown mate.
So up around your way.

I Lived down in Tasmania for a while and actually found the cold nights the best for putting epoxy on.
I did have to sit the epoxy in a cup of hot water tho before spreading.

Since moving up here I find those really humid nights (the ones where the tiled floors are wet for no reason)
To be really bad. I can’t get epoxy to settle let alone cure properly.
I did get the West System for those humid nights tho. Seems to set nice and clear without that milky haze over it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Limber-timber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2019 at 12:51pm
Much more success on the new technique.
Thanks for the help Danny

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Danny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2019 at 3:34pm
They look fantastic mate. Well done.
Dan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Doc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2019 at 3:03am
I would put it down to uneven mix of the two parts mainly the part A having a lower surface energy you need to increase the cross linking time (the time after mixing when you leave it to settle and heat up) befor you paint it on
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Doc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2019 at 3:05am
I would put it down to uneven mix of the two parts mainly the part A having a lower surface energy you need to increase the cross linking time (the time after mixing when you leave it to settle and it heats up) befor you paint it on
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beetle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2019 at 8:10pm
I've had those issues with a few brands of epoxy, but rarely with Envirotex Lite. The good old Etex performed the best. I always avoid handling the lure after sealing (again using thinned etex) and if I get some slight dimpling, the second coat usually fixes it. Also, make sure you mix your 2 parts REALLY well.
I'm in Brisbane, so while not as humid as up your way, it can get pretty muggy during summer. I would suggest giving etex a try if you still run into issues.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hazmail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2019 at 6:36pm
Nice lures mate and welcome to the epoxy nightmare, it takes a while to iron out all the ''boogies'' with his stuff.
For a long time I had similar problems as you posted, a ''lure turner'' will level everything out with this coating, also make sure your undercoat/sealer is air tight because as the temperature goes up and down so do the air bubbles coming out of the blank.
AS the air in the blank expands or contracts with air temp rise etc, these tiny bubbles can also rise into the topcoat where they sometimes burst, or a lot of the time, are trapped.
Good luck with it Jake, looks like you are on top of it anyway.
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