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Kadaitcha WOW!

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    Posted: 23 Mar 2013 at 6:42pm
Lure collecting is alive & well!

2 big Rmg "kadaitcha" lures sold just now on that auction site for money that was too rich for me but a great price for some pretty special lures going on the pictures.

Wish I owned them but well done to the bidders/winners. Hope you put some more pics up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikehunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2013 at 7:23pm

Wow alright Gronk just to rich for me as we'll.  but I can't understand why the maker needed to call his lure a Kadaitcha and not one of his models. Sure makes the other kadaitcha s worth more money now.
For the collecting fraternity it is a huge plus I must say. Thanks for letting us know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alistair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2013 at 9:24pm
Yes, if an inferior copy is worth big dollar's what then is the original thing worth. I have another one made by the same maker I think a few years ago, just need to get it identified by him for sure. Might be worth a few dollars to someone. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gronk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 5:24am
What makes them inferior? The painting & stand looked especially good.
As for using the name it seems alright when powelly makes his ones each & every year (in limited & numbered quantities) as well as when Deception lures did one too.
I'd like to own any of those ones to to go with my one & only p.newell one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lefty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 6:46am
Wow is right.... That's a high price alright.

I on the other hand don't think these high prices are good for the collectors in general.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote froggy06 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 7:08am
Im with you Gronk , the kadaitcha was such an " iconic " lure , why not bring one out with your own twist on it ? was the kadaitcha name trademarked ? it seems to me that some makers  that produce thier own version of the kadaitcha are commended for the job they do and  its accepted in the lure collecting community , others try to do it and peolpe start to put the boots in , slagging thier name around for doing it Confused i think any lure maker that dose thier own version , only adds weight to the fact that what a great lure the kadaitcha was and can only add more value to the originals . My thoughts only .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lure-Nut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 8:22am
I think there would be very few Collectors who would have an argument with any Luremaker, Legend or otherwise, recreating a Classic - provided that it is clearly identified as this one is and not passed off as an original.

In this case Rob Gaden's Kadaitcha looks superb, the market price was amazing - all up a beautiful tribute to Peter's original Kadaitcha Clap



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Rob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aussbasstony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 8:24am
Originally posted by gronk gronk wrote:

What makes them inferior? The painting & stand looked especially good.
As for using the name it seems alright when powelly makes his ones each & every year (in limited & numbered quantities) as well as when Deception lures did one too.
I'd like to own any of those ones to to go with my one & only p.newell one.

Hi, I'm with you on the Stand Gronk !   it looked stunning and has given me an idea for one of my special lures in my collection.  Computer and etching machines are incredible this day and age Thumbs Up

Lets face it his lure was well made and presentation was 100 percent. !! 

I hope like heck that Powelly Kad's never get to that dollar value as i will soon be off the list. I don't think Travers ever wanted to make a killing out of the money side of things but just to add a twist to his version for the collectors of an Iconic lure maker in History.

People want to pay that much nothing you or I can do about it, Beauty is in the eye of the beholder !! 

Makes it harder for the new comer to collecting and lets face it.if you don't get new people collecting all the old collectors will be sitting back with all there huge collections and no one to sell them too! 

But looks like they both went to regular buyers of His lures so everyone will be happy. 

Either way it's not hurting me as I had no intentions of buying one and never will. 

Cheers Tony


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alistair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 8:32am

Originally posted by froggy06 froggy06 wrote:

Im with you Gronk , the kadaitcha was such an " iconic " lure , why not bring one out with your own twist on it ? was the kadaitcha name trademarked ? it seems to me that some makers  that produce thier own version of the kadaitcha are commended for the job they do and  its accepted in the lure collecting community , others try to do it and peolpe start to put the boots in , slagging thier name around for doing it Confused i think any lure maker that dose thier own version , only adds weight to the fact that what a great lure the kadaitcha was and can only add more value to the originals . My thoughts only .

Some makers either have the permission of Kathy to make them and others have a high respect for Peter and the Newell name. Neither apply here I believe. As for the Deception Kads, they were made a long time ago and to go fishing with, not for sale to make a dollar. 

Why would RMG make a lure designed by a man he  has such a bad and well known history with? Is it a way of having a shot or just to make a quick dollar? Certainly hard to swallow if it is claimed to be a tribute lure. Go and copy some other maker but have some respect and leave the Newell's alone. I would of thought there were enough fakes out there as it is. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gronk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 8:49am
If I had the talent & ability to make something so nice & also be so sought after I'd do it to. No matter what the history is. Which from the few stories I've heard really depends on what side you get & also what lures you have in your collection.
A copy is a copy no matter how you frame it. Mates or not, permission or not is irrelevant in my opinion. I like the powelly ones & deception too.
Tony - stands sure are special. Description said flamed polished finish. Would have though that would melt plastic .

Anyway - nice lures. Nice price. well done to all as far as I'm concerned.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alistair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 9:04am
Originally posted by gronk gronk wrote:

If I had the talent & ability to make something so nice & also be so sought after I'd do it to. No matter what the history is.

I guess that is what separates collectors from investors. 

rowdythelureman, god rest his soul apparently, seemed to be the first to see the benefit in copying Kadaitcha's for profit and I see this as a continuation. Just my honest opinion anyway young fellaWink.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hazmail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 10:18am
"Tony - stands sure are special. Description said flamed polished finish. Would have though that would melt plastic".
 
 
Gronk- I havn't seen these stands, this claimed 'flame polishing' sounds impressive BUT in reality is a pretty simple/ fast process.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darren240 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 10:22am
you hit the nail right on the head alistair 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote froggy06 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 10:50am
There is so much talk behind closed doors on what is truth and what is fiction between past and present lure makers. Did Peter Newell give permission to anyone to duplicate the kadaitcha ? if so is it documented anywhere ? If not , is it documented anywhere ? Why are they re produced , to make money of course Thumbs Up. Thats why Travers kadaitcha sets are so highly sought after ? Try and get on his list to get them !!!!! They are a beautiful re creation of the original lure and highly collectable , I dont think Travers makes his sets to give away just because he was mates with Peter Newell and just loved the lure ??????? RMG kadaitcha , only 3 ever made , to me , a more highly collectable lure simply because of how many were produced. ( i missed out ) . It was a beautifully made lure and presented spot on , thats why people pay big dollars to own them . To who ever got the 2 RMG kadaitcha lures , good on you both and i hope you enjoy them Thumbs Up well done.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 11:17am
Radio Birdman are my favorite band, only saw them live once, and they were great.
Some other bands play a few of their songs, with or without their blessing, some really good, some not so good. Would I boycott a cover band that plays their songs, even if they had hit that birdman never could achieve, no.
Its nice that P Newell is recognised as the original maker of this lure, and Im pretty sure that no one else is claiming that they designed it. I never had the oppertunity to buy a Newell kaditcha, but if I went Cod fishing in SA, and there was a good timber copy, I would be eager to buy some, given the reputation that the lure has.

Alister, you obviously have a problem with RMG lures, and the history of Rob and Peter, but I have no connection or loyalty for either, I just like hand made lures and appreciate the workmanship of each and everyone I have, no matter the maker.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 11:17am
hmmm, seems I missed adding them to the watch lists.Cry..must have been a quick auction or listed somewhere off centre Confused


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lure-Nut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 11:27am
Originally posted by Darby Darby wrote:

hmmm, seems I missed adding them to the watch lists.Cry..must have been a quick auction or listed somewhere off centre Confused



http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/121080449485?nma=true&si=J1evLenGRS3%2FnupLPATF1jGzrJ4%3D&rt=nc&_trksid=p4340.l2557&orig_cvip=true#ht_500wt_1414

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/121080445506?nma=true&si=J1evLenGRS3%2FnupLPATF1jGzrJ4%3D&rt=nc&_trksid=p4340.l2557&orig_cvip=true#ht_599wt_1399

Brad, beautiful looking lures Tongue


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gronk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 11:32am
Didnt mean for anyone to be attacked or slagged off guys. Not Newell or deception or rmg or alistair. Just talking about some nice bits of wood on nice stands that I liked the look of. To each there own I guess.
Radio bird man are a very good band Davent.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dingo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 11:42am
Last I saw them at $560.00.
(Put plainly)
Nice looking copy but not worth more than an original.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alistair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 11:48am
Originally posted by Davent Davent wrote:

 

Alister, you obviously have a problem with RMG lures, and the history of Rob and Peter, 

Yes. But not with the lures. I have never hidden that.

People collect for many reasons, and there is no right reason to do so as that is individualistic. History for me plays a big part and some of it has certainly turned me off some makers whilst others have become unexpected favourites.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 12:03pm
Thanks Rob, missed it while I was away in Sth Oz...thought I caught all the strays Unhappy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horrorhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 12:15pm
Getting off the subject of the Newell / RMG issue. When does a lure maker become accredited to the creator of a shape? Peter was very innovative for sure - but now most shapes have already been made before unless you were to go to extreme shapes or designs.

For about 6 months I had an idea for a top water frog and kept it to myself until I had the opportunity and enthusiasm to make it. A few weeks ago I saw that lure exactly on this site by Powelly (?) or b.o.b. (?). A general frog shape with one of those plastic propellers between it's legs. Credit to them because it looked great but the 2 of us, and how many others, had the same idea at around the same time.

I know of another lure maker who purposely did not talk to Peter or buy any Newells so he couldn't justly be accused of copying his shapes - and as it turned out, many of his shapes are very similar to Peter's.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 1:45pm
Martin, that concept has been done in the US many moons ago, but the blade between the legs is a better idea I reckon Clap

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote froggy06 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 3:25pm
Alister , i find your comment that " some makers have the permission of Kathy to make them and others have a high respect for Peter and the Newell name " to be a little off the mark. I have never met Peter Newell or Rob Gaden , but why do the so called stories from both sides differ so much ? I dont know the real story , so im asking someone to tell it. If RMG wanted to profit , why not make a " limited number 100 kadaitchas " and sell them ? To me , only to make 3 one offs ,  seems more of a tribute than a money grab.
How many lures has Kathy given approval to be made , does anyone know ? Is there a list ? Who are the " chosen few " ?  If there is such a high level of respect for Peter Newell and his family from luremakers , then why make any coppies at all ? Let only the original kadaitcha lures rest and live on . I have also heard other stories stating that RMG coppied the Newell scorpion , i have  in my collection , the original court stat dec , signed and dated in the Tenterfield Court House by Peter Douglas Newell , signing all rights of the Newell Scorpion over to Robert Michael Gaden and i quote " permission to manufactuer and market the lure known as the " scorpion " fishing lure and that no other person has permission to do so " so why do stories then exist of coppying  when this document clearly signs all rights over to RMG ? Is there a similar document relating to the kadaitcha ??????????? If there is no copy right on a lure design or name , why does it cause so much turmoil in the lure collecting circles ? Im no expert , and dont claim to be , but it amazes me how much this can divide groups , we are all doing this hopefully for the same reason .    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bdowdy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 3:48pm
Ok fellas , isn't rob a member on here maybe we let him tell the story about the lures and the kadiatcha story , just a thought ?????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote froggy06 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 4:03pm
You are rite Brett , would love to hear from the likes of Dave Smith , Trevor McFeeeter , John Bennett , Rob Gaden or John Gower whom , from what im lead to believe , were all at times part of the Peter Newell lure brand. This would make a great book  , as i see it as a major part in the lure making history of Australia.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alistair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 4:12pm


I am not sure what is off the mark. Some people have asked for Kathy's ok and others do have a high respect for Peter and the Newell name. What's off the mark there.

"Seems more of a tribute than a money grab" - Sorry, but I don't buy that one. 

trib·ute  


Noun
An act, statement, or gift that is intended to show gratitude, respect, or admiration.
Adjective
Denoting or relating to a group or musician that performs the music of a more famous one and imitates them in appearance and style of...

I don't see how making a huge profit is in any way a tribute to Peter Newell. 

As for your other questions, to be honest they have all been discussed before and not something I wish to expend the time and energy getting into. If you want answers then a search on the web of various sites will provide you with the answers. I don't think though that there has been allegations of copying the scorpion shape, rather what was done with the design and ownership of it. 

When it comes down to it, there are so many makers and people who once were friends or at least acquaintances of RMG that now have nothing good to say about him. I don't expect you or anyone to place credit to my words but just look at the facts. 

This though is about the lures that were just sold so maybe get back on track. If Peter was alive today and made a lure in this fashion I do not believe it would be worth the same $$$ either.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alistair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 4:15pm
Originally posted by bdowdy bdowdy wrote:

Ok fellas , isn't rob a member on here maybe we let him tell the story about the lures and the kadiatcha story , just a thought ?????

Rob is not an active member on here, at least under any name he wishes to make public.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bdowdy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 4:19pm
Ok thought he was alistar it would have been very interesting to hear what he had to say as I know what I've heard from Peter personally and other lure makers ????? Oh well some know the truth
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Montah Steel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 4:46pm
for me lures are like  music. its all been done before and there is only so much scope to play with in relation to shape etc. i see nothing wrong with copying lures or covering songs. but like cover bands, copies should not be named/branded as originals. 

i respect the originals immensely and appreciate a good copy.

im totally new to lures, what if id never seen one before and came up with the exact same shape? and called it a Hobbled Banana?? would i be condemned for copying the shape?,  i reckon if Peter Newell didnt craft it, its a copy. regardless of who has the rights to the name.

the only reason id buy the above lures at that price would be to copy in mass.....

handing over a lure name/ design is no different to passing on website/business name. sure the name has prestige, but does the new owner? would the name have the same prestige if a mass producer got there hands on the model instead of Rob Gaden?

ive tried a bibbed rmg lure recently and it works great, mass produced plastic model for $4 from big w. has the name been tainted? i dont think so, just the process of manufacturing and quality of finish. i imagine its the same or similar to early hand crafted models in relation to action.

unless you trademark or patent a name/product, anyone can copy you or use the same name.
this seems the issue when cataloging lures it seems to me.

what if rob gaden did a better final product? should they be worth as much as originals?

seems the lure industry is similar to the freemasons. [joke]

The fraternity is administratively organised into independent Grand Lodges or sometimes Orients, each of which governs its own jurisdiction, which consists of subordinate (or constituent) Lodges. The various Grand Lodges recognise each other, or not, based upon adherence to landmarks. A Grand Lodge will usually deem other Grand Lodges who share common landmarks to be regular, and those that do not to be "irregular" or "clandestine".

The fraternity is administratively organised into independent Grand Lure makers.. The various Grand Lure makers recognise each other, or not, based upon adherence to design concepts. A Grand Lure maker will usually deem other Grand Lure makers who share common finishing traits to be regular, and those that do not to be "irregular" [new to the industry] or "clandestine"[ copiers].
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lefty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 4:49pm
At the end of the day, anyone can copy anything I thought the Kads looked great and the price was Wow.

In some cases the copies are well sought after. I have an original downunder timber boomer an Rmg timber boomer and I would love to add a Oar Gee boomer to my collection, I would probably pay more for an oar gee boomer than an original Just because I don't have one.

I would of loved one of the Gaden Kads but out of my price range. In fact I would love to see a few more copies how about s stumpy copy or more boomer copies.

I Would love to have a copy section within my collection bring it on I say. Just not a fan of high prices lol...

My two cents worth Cheers Jas
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote manny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 4:59pm
What did they go for?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 5:12pm
i just wonder what would of been said if they only made 100 bucks each
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alistair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 5:24pm
Good question, not as much I would guess, but my view would not have changedWink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 5:44pm
IMHO they are nice lures, but worth over a grand....????

Might have to carve some Bradaitchas if the copies are getting that much $$$ Wink
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