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Kadaitcha WOW!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lure-Nut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 5:50pm
It will be a very pleasant day when the focus on a lure is more about the lure itself, rather than the politics behind it - the politics are killing this hobby for everyone.

This is a stunning lure and for that reason alone we should be applauding Rob on it's creation rather than embroiling the whole topic in fractious discussions about the Luremaker and his history.

The lure is clearly made by Rob Gaden and called a Kadaitcha, there is no subterfuge - there are now 2 very lucky collectors who had the coin to buy them .... well done to both of you Clap

IMHO there are other non-public places to take on personal spats, be they based on facts or innuendo Confused I'm not on any side and never will be, just hate seeing discussions on great lures denigrate into this sort of rabble.



Cheers

Rob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reel deal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 5:55pm
Sorry Brad - beat you to it ..

Mencho and yours truly, created this 750mm "Wadaicha".

NOT for sale .. not for a grand or even 6 camels Hmmm 6 goats maybe ??LOL

wadey
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote froggy06 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 5:59pm
Great idea , what about a show us your copy section, where collectors can post a pic of an original lure , then a pic of thier copy to compare , would be great for people to see and hopefully learn more about lures. I love the originals , but i also love a great copy ( tribute) lure as well ,    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 6:16pm
I wonder what Peter Newell would think  i dont think he'd give a rats a..e and one other thing isnt it funny that every man and his dog claims to be Peters best mate a friend of mine did know him and said he was an absolute gentleman all i can say is let sleeping dogs lay.. Cheers Dave  Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 6:48pm
"but i also love a great copy ( tribute) lure as well"
Froggy, I have made MY copy of one of Peter's lures for each anniversary of his passing, So far a...
Kadaitcha
Scorpion
Chin Minnow

each will stay here, and in case they go missing, well marked to be a tribute lure, as well as being MY copy, so just a little different to the real thing.

Brad
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alistair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 7:25pm
Rob, I respect what you say but also believe that this is a lure site that records history, good and bad. I have never claimed to be a mate of Peter, but I did know him enough for him to speak to me about the Scorpion and the outcome of that as well as interviewed Kathy about many things, that period included. Both have told me how it came to blows with RMG and the feeling towards the man so to put this into the category of a tribute as worded in this post( which never was claimed by RMG in the eBay listing ) is I feel insulting and in the very least, poor taste.  Why make a Kadaitcha when he had his own lure of that type in the Deep Dan?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lure-Nut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 8:18pm
Originally posted by Alistair Alistair wrote:

 Why make a Kadaitcha when he had his own lure of that type in the Deep Dan?

Guess I'm not a psychic and will probably never know, but if it was to stir up and get under the skin of the Newell camp - it appears he's achieved his aim LOL Confused

I'd prefer we just focussed on the lure .... and from the pics it looks stunning Thumbs Up



Cheers

Rob


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alistair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 8:34pm
Originally posted by Lure-Nut Lure-Nut wrote:

but if it was to stir up and get under the skin of the Newell camp - it appears he's achieved his aim LOL Confused



Sometimes things are too quiet so a good stir of the pot makes life interesting, some of us like that more than othersLOL In the end, it really does not effect our lives at all. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steiny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2013 at 8:38pm
$1500 seems like a lot of dosh for a lure IMO regardless of the maker!
cheers steiny
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2013 at 4:55am
to learn about carving a lure, for us that are not lure makers
best thing is to copy a lure and see how we go for practice
 
but i have held in my hand copies that have had the writing copied  on the lure as well
that is of a maker that is not with us and were sold for good money HOW SICK IS THAT
 
so yes copy artist's out for money are among usOuch
 
make a lure and put your own name on themBig smile
 
regards George
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JOKER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2013 at 7:13am
Here is my poor worthless inferior copy, not sure but dose the real thing have a rattle just wondering as I took the time to put one in mine as we find that rattle makes a big difference where I fish.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doccod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2013 at 11:09am
Well a lot of food for thought here!!!!!!! Talk about wingers......So what if one of Rob Gadens lures got great money.......Good on him!!!!!! As for the Scorpion issue......I thought that was long dead and buried since the design has been manufactured by every copy cat throughout the lure building world......For the record I think the best cod catching lure that Peter Newell ever made was the Boney.......That lure remained unwritten by me because it was catching heaps of cod...... and me and Peter along with the Gows had a fall out over advertising greed by a magazine...... I was writing for at the time.......So I never informed Peter of my findings.........Also the "Ploppy" range of lures created at the time by that exact partnership in my own mind rates far higher for native fish than the original 'Floppy" lure whereby the lures idea came from.........Everyone copies the "Flatfish" design and you know why?????? Cause that trademark wide sway seductively tantalizes greenfish..........As for being serious about lure histories going with lure makers......Sounds too polictical for meLOLLOLLOLWink.........B.J.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote froggy06 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2013 at 12:35pm
After many phone calls and emails ( some abuseive ) claiming that no such document exists , and if so why hasnt it been seen by anyone before, well here it is , maybee now another chapter can  be closed on the " so called " Newell / RMG ill feelings that some people have expressed.    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nicho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2013 at 12:57pm
its interesting yet sad to see debates over bloody lures that most only have an opinion by hear say....
after looking through many old posts on a few other sites  and seeing the same ridiculous debate, that got out of hand ...resulting in people being banned from  several sites because of overly political views..
 
and  its very easy to work out by the replys in those old posts, that one or two are the same ones  that bring the politics to this site................SAD REALLY
they are lures....made for catching fish......if others want to pay big dollars for genuine brands, or for a copy from a noted maker, who cares.....
Instead of whingeing ,id rather shake my head, and put that money into a fishing trip to use lures for what they are made for....fishing.....
..who cares who made what......its interesting history for sure.... but too many people think they know it all, but have never achieved anything in the field of their supposed expertise.
Im with Rob......focus on the lure not the politics......its slowly decaying this site to the detrament of many.
thats my two bobs worth.
Nichos Maulers Homemade timber lures....THEY CATCH FISH!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handbrake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2013 at 10:17pm
Froggy, thank you for putting up that Stat dec but the date is a little hard to read. Is that 1994?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2013 at 4:45am
Originally posted by JOKER JOKER wrote:

Here is my poor worthless inferior copy, not sure but dose the real thing have a rattle just wondering as I took the time to put one in mine as we find that rattle makes a big difference where I fish.
top lure Shane would look great in any cabinet,, and i can see Shane Love on the lure,, not worthless
Jas, as a non lure collector or someone that has never purchased a lure for four figures it may be hard to understand, it is okay to vent but as long as it dosn't go further than that
if i gave you a Moller would you swim it? or put on the wall? i swam mine 
and through this we are getting more information, good or bad
the worst thing is don't put anger in pm's if you can't say it here don't say it at all
 
regards George
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote froggy06 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2013 at 5:41am
Yes Deb the date i s 1994 on the document. I am currently reading through boxes of old documents dating back to the early 1980 s including old hand written diarys . There is some great reading with dayly work ledgers , lure orders etc.
 
The information i have Deb goes like this , please corret me if you have different information ,
 
 Informal agreement was signed and witnessed by Don Lawasn , " Chappy , Rob Gaden and Peter Newell and dated 18/10/1991. This was done in the car when the boys went on a fishing trip.
 
Some months later it was said by Kathy Newell " its not worth the paper is was written on "
 
A second legally binding document was sort after a long time. After alot of " toing and froing " the doucument i have shown was given.
 
This Stat Dec was given and recieved , and accepted by Robert Gaden as payment for an outstanding debt with Peter. The signing of this document and its rights was taken as payment of this debt.
  
I am open to be corrected if this information is not correct , as i am gioing off the information i have in front of me. This is not an attack on any of the people mentioned , just thought it might settle some of the on going rumours that have been circulating and views people have been expressing from both sides.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2013 at 5:54am
Froggy, I know the older collectors in the group, know of the stat decl, and the reason behind it.

I have seen a declaration copy too and as it was explained to me, the unrest came when Rob included the Scorpion in the RMG sale to Halco.

As stated in the declaration, "and that no other person has permission to do so"

Cheers Brad
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lefty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2013 at 6:07am
Hi Froggy

You must feel like a kid at Christmas with a box of goodies like that. Keep us all posted on what you find.

Cheers Jas
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote froggy06 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2013 at 6:47am
For sure Jas , got some great stuff to get through , i couldnt believe how easy it was to get hold of , i made a few calls and different people said no worries , no use to them anymore so take them.
Got everything from dayly entries in diarys over 15 years , sketches of lures in design stage , lure orders , contacts of people who purchased lures , special lure orders , money transactions , business dealings , lure models that never saw the light of day , lists of prospective lure names and models it goes on and on ConfusedConfused is a very detailed history from the early 80 s , i will keep you posted as i slowly go through all of it .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handbrake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2013 at 6:57am
I have a letter from Kathy Newell after Peter died that was sent to a well known fishing editor in reply to a fictional vale on Peter. Kathy was very upset and there was no debt involved in deal on Peter's behalf.
 I am away at present. I will reveal more when I return.Debbie
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2013 at 7:00am
thats great stuff nigel,,,,,,,,,, interesting that stat dec,,,,,
REMEMBER FOOLS RUSH IN WERE ANGELES FEAR TO TREAD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wazza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2013 at 8:22am
Originally posted by Darby Darby wrote:

Froggy, I know the older collectors in the group, know of the stat decl, and the reason behind it.

I have seen a declaration copy too and as it was explained to me, the unrest came when Rob included the Scorpion in the RMG sale to Halco.

As stated in the declaration, "and that no other person has permission to do so"

Cheers Brad
To add to that Brad ,Halco threatened to sue Peter for still using the scorpion name
until Peters solicitor produced a copy of that document they backed down straight away.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seaweed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2013 at 8:31am
Very interesting that 'fineprint', thanks for the enlightenment Brad. Curious to know how a bloke from Melbourne, acquired some very interesting documentation Confused.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote froggy06 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2013 at 12:20pm
Cpt SeaWeed , acquiring this information is pretty simple if you know where to look , and with a little research , anyone could have got it before me . I was directed to other sites regarding this topic to " do some reading " , which i have done. Thre is always a paper trail to follow if guided in the rite direction.
 
HALCO did not back down , and still use the name under contract with Jarvis Walker pty ltd.
Jarvis Walker own the name Scorpion under act 28 of registed fishing names " Fishing Section "
 
HALCO have an under writting agreement with Jarvis Walker to use the name.
 
Peter Newell had to cease using the name Scorpion , which is why he used the M2 M3 ect during the Gower partnership.
 
The " Stat Dec " was accutally provided to the solicitors by HALCO , not Peter Newell.
 
It was also deemed by solicitors that the US patent should have been given to Gaden , with the Stat Dec , but the patent had lapsed and was now worthless so it was not pursued any further.
 
Once again , if i am wrong in any way , please come forward and set the record straight.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nicho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2013 at 1:23pm
Originally posted by bluey bluey wrote:

Originally posted by JOKER JOKER wrote:

Here is my poor worthless inferior copy, not sure but dose the real thing have a rattle just wondering as I took the time to put one in mine as we find that rattle makes a big difference where I fish.
top lure Shane would look great in any cabinet,, and i can see Shane Love on the lure,, not worthless
Jas, as a non lure collector or someone that has never purchased a lure for four figures it may be hard to understand, it is okay to vent but as long as it dosn't go further than that
if i gave you a Moller would you swim it? or put on the wall? i swam mine 
and through this we are getting more information, good or bad
the worst thing is don't put anger in pm's if you can't say it here don't say it at all
 
regards George
 
Bluey,
Im not sure if you were talking to me in this post?
Im not getting into the political side of it at all.......and at no stage did i ever send anyone  incl yourself a PM with any anger, what I said is as above?? Unless Im misunderstanding your point?
Or the above was intended for someone else?Smile
Jas
 
oh and shane, nice lure mate, not yet seen a standard shape done by you mateThumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hazmail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2013 at 6:59pm
Only one way to sort this out--next lure swap all have to make a copy of one of his lures (Pete Newell), whoever runs it picks it. Some including me will be at a disadvantage though, because I have never seen one, but can go off pictures measurements etc.
The charity auction at the end should be worth big 'quids', I for one am nearly dead so that may add a very few $'s to the auction  --  http://www.compassion.com.au/content/give-water-for-a-lifetime/gk6ljt 
OR we could send the proceeds to Pete Newell's wife. (sorry widow)
Pete
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alistair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2013 at 7:25pm
Peter, I quite like that idea, a different twist for sure. I don't know how Kathy would feel about taking the proceeds, one would have to ask but I don't think there would be any problem with the idea of it going towards a prostate cancer charity of some kind. Just a thought.
Alistair.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fletch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2013 at 7:33pm
pete ...what a great idea . id like to have a crack at that ..whens it start .. cheers aaron
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seagull Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2013 at 7:46pm
Yep same here i would been keen aswell for a swap like this............. Cheerz Errol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hazmail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2013 at 7:50pm
@ $1500 a copy we should be able to come up with something close, -------- X 10 = $15,000 MAYBE.
Sold as a set or individually????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aussbasstony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2013 at 7:56pm
Originally posted by hazmail hazmail wrote:


@ $1500 a copy we should be able to come up with something close, -------- X 10 = $15,000 MAYBE.
Sold as a set or individually????
Pete


Yeah mate , a legit collector set never sold for the same price and it was 11 lures not one

Must of been a boycott , nah never heard of such idiotic rubbish !


Now what was this thread about again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2013 at 8:35pm
"Must of been a boycott , nah never heard of such idiotic rubbish ! "

Charles, Geoffrey or Rosie ????

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lure-Nut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2013 at 8:45pm
Interestingly, if there had been 3 Rob Gaden Kadaitchas for sale instead of 2 and the same losing bidder on both occasions had not last minute suicided the other 2 ultimate winners, the 3 unique big bidders on these auctions may have each won a lure for well under $600.

Assuming the appetite for the 2 winners is now 'sated' because they only each bid on one of the lures, what would the 'market price' be for the 3rd lure if it was now offered for sale

I'm sure the twice lucked out losing bidder would bid the big bucks again, but would he have had to if the third had been offered, or would the first 2 winners have had to bid in big again to protect their initial $ investments

Not for a minute do I suspect the 2 winning bidders are anything other than ecstatic with their purchase, but in hindsight it was a brilliant selling strategy



Cheers

Rob
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Joined: 10 Nov 2009
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alistair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2013 at 8:55pm
As said, the problem between RMG and P.Newell was the sale of the scorpion design to Halco. And as pointed out the intended deal of the scorpion signed over to RMG was for him to make and market the lure, himself. I do not claim to be a mate of Peter's but I do remember him telling me on a couple of occasions how this happened and how he wanted to contest this in court but to take on a company like Halco was not an option for him financially, which obviously was very frustrating for him. I have also spoken to, and interviewed Kathy who has confirmed these events. To put it lightly, there is no love lost I have seen between them and this is why I feel that the lures in question made and sold are in the very least poor taste to have made. There is nothing legally wrong with it, but bucket loads of morally wrong .

The fact that this topic was put up was to cause a response. That much was obvious from the beginning.
Alistair.

Comfort the disturbed - Disturb the comfortable.
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