Making a mould |
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Google
Unverified New Member Joined: 13 Oct 2010 Status: Offline Points: 131 |
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Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 6:52am |
Hi guys, here is the procedure that I used to make my first mould. Feel free to give me any pointers to improve my process. I purchased a kit and followed the instructions so this is probably why it turned out ok!
Step 1 - roll out modelling clay (I rolled it onto a cutting board, using a piece of 40mm poly pipe). Make it about 20mm larger than your lure in each dimention. be sure to make it high enough for at least half your lure. Push the original into the clay half way.
Step 2 - trim the clay (I used a metal ruller) to about 15mm larger than your lure in each dimention. Then cut out the "box" material (in the kit they provide polystyrene sheet)
Step 3 - insert a sprue - this is where you pour the resin for the lure through
Step 4 - seal up the clay box by gently spreading the edges with your finger (as seen in top of picture)so that minimal silicone can escape while pouring. Push in "key" holes. To make it easier to locate the wires I inserted a couple of nails through the wires.
Step 5 - mix up the silicone to the correct ratio - make sure you get this right (Pilly had a go and mixed it wrong and it took a week to set!!). Pour mixture slowly into one corner of the lure box. Let it set 8-12hrs. One side done...
*** pleas note - I cut down my box to save silicone - not sure yet if this was a good idea. will let you know after I pour some lures in it!
Step 6 - When set, remove the sides of the box CAREFULLY!! (I used a metal ruler as a knife and it worked a treat!)
Step 7 - Turn the mould over and gently remove the clay. "Re-box" the mould half. With a brush place a thin layer of petroleum jelly over the silicone (to stop the sides sticking).
Step 8 - mix silicone and pour as above.
Step 9 - When set remove boxing, gently separate sides and remove master lure and sprue. Mould ready to go.
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tooch
LureLovers.com Fanatic Twitchy Lures Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Location: windsor nsw Status: Offline Points: 3450 |
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Hi Rhys, well done mate a picture tells a thousand words
what are you going to make you lures from ??? because
your bib is going to be made from the same material it will be ok
if you are going to use resin but I think it will break off if you use
something else. Thanks mate for posting this topic it's very informative
and your pics are geat...........Pete.
Just had a thought Rhys if you place a ready made bib into your
mould and pour your material around it that might work a treat....
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Piatu
Stall Holder Joined: 02 Sep 2010 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 529 |
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I make molds for icejigs just like same way, but i use screws in silicone.
Preparing: First part ready: And few diffrent molds: Not smoothies molds, but working ;) |
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Pilly
Senior Member Joined: 21 Jul 2010 Location: Emerald, QLD Status: Offline Points: 777 |
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Hi Pete,
Yeah mate you just put a lexan bib of the same size into the mould, with a key way drilled into it so that it locks into the resin. The resin is polyurethane. I have also used a sacrificial bib before which is coated with a release agent so that it can be removed after the resin is set, then you can glue and pin in a different shape/style of bib.
I better not tell Google all my secrets, it looks like he is really enjoying my new hobby. It only took 12 hours for my mould to set even though I only put half the required amount of hardener in and how many phone calls to me did it take for you to get that mould right?
Pilly
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Toga Fever
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tooch
LureLovers.com Fanatic Twitchy Lures Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Location: windsor nsw Status: Offline Points: 3450 |
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Hi Rhys and Adrian, Are you two having some sort of competition or something???
theres a lot of tooing and frowing there guys....Good to see but.....Pete.
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Timber King Lures
Unverified New Member Joined: 26 Nov 2009 Location: Barra country Status: Offline Points: 886 |
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Been there done that but i had problems of having to remake moulds every 8-12 casts .
The silicone would start to go brittle and breaking in small areas to a point where lures that came out looked like sh@&
The casting resin i used generated heat and id say that was the problem to why the silicone moulds never lasted.
At $70 a litre for the silicone (top quality,so called heat resistant type) and $8 for the hardener,i didnt think it was worth it..
Let us know how yours goes..
nando.
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Pilly
Senior Member Joined: 21 Jul 2010 Location: Emerald, QLD Status: Offline Points: 777 |
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Just a bit of love between cousins, nothing to worry about, been doing it for years. We love taking the out of each other although I usually win hey Rhys.
Adrian
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Toga Fever
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Pilly
Senior Member Joined: 21 Jul 2010 Location: Emerald, QLD Status: Offline Points: 777 |
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Nando,
I am only new to this moulding but I have so far cast at least 15 lures from the same mould and it is still in great condition (even though I didn't put the correct amount of hardener in as my mate so kindly pointed out) . The poly I use doesn't seem to generate much heat and the same silicone moulds can be used to cast pewter and other low melting temp alloys so they should be able to handle a bit of heat. Not quite sure what happened with yours .
Cheers
Adrian
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Toga Fever
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Google
Unverified New Member Joined: 13 Oct 2010 Status: Offline Points: 131 |
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Pilly, just calling you to make sure that you made the mistakes first. What's this about YOUR hobby, I think my old boy got you started??? Tooch, there is no competition, just trying to better our lure making skills.
Nando, I know that Pilly has made quite a few of his frogs - at least 10 or so and the mould seems to be holding up well. I guess it depends upon the properties of the silicone and the release agent used in the mould. I will be making a batch this weekend so I will let you know if it begins to deteriorate.
As Pilly explained earlier, the bibs are made of lexan or polycarbonate sheet and positioned in place (with the wire also) before the polyurethane resin is poured in.
I will post some pics of the finished product when completed.
Cheers
Rhys
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Nicho
Stall Holder Nichos Maulers Joined: 25 Feb 2010 Location: POMONA QLD Status: Offline Points: 8752 |
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AWESOME rhys,
looks like you got it sussed pretty good there mate, pilly was saying that you were giving him some good advice on how to improve on his lures, and I can see what he means! well done buddy youve got it sorted!. jas
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Nichos Maulers Homemade timber lures....THEY CATCH FISH!
YA DONT KNOW...IF YA DONT GO...SO GET OUT THERE AND... FISH IT |
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hazmail
Stall Holder Rayna Lures Joined: 05 Jul 2010 Location: Calwell A.C.T Status: Offline Points: 2562 |
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Have you all tried normal old bathroom silicone ($4 a tube) with a little water, much cheaper.
Pete-R |
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Timber King Lures
Unverified New Member Joined: 26 Nov 2009 Location: Barra country Status: Offline Points: 886 |
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You using the expanding poly Rhys ?
Made 4 of those moulds with the best silicone money could buy.All went the same way
Used very expensive release agent as well
Got me stumped
nando
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Google
Unverified New Member Joined: 13 Oct 2010 Status: Offline Points: 131 |
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Hi guys,
I poured my first lure in the mould nast night and had a shocker for the first run, had a massive air bubble stuck and only half the lure came out. the interesting thing is that it was the top half .
I had another go and it worked a treat, probably first time jitters.
Nando, the resin is a Barnes product - easycast resin, it does expand a little (not much though). It is white when cured and you add bouyancy spheres (micro glass beeds) to make them float which helps with the consistence/texture of the resin.
Cheers
Rhys
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Google
Unverified New Member Joined: 13 Oct 2010 Status: Offline Points: 131 |
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Hazmail, I am very interested in using bathroom silicone but I am unsure of how well it would work? Can you post some pictures of the moulds you have made out of it? How durable it it? I guess if you get a dozen lures out of it for less than $10 it probably wouldn't be a problem!!
I look forward to finding out, cheers
Rhys
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puglee62
Stall Holder Fugly Lures Joined: 03 Feb 2010 Location: ipswich Status: Offline Points: 7939 |
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you can use bathroom silicone Google,ive heard if you mix water into it it goes off quicker(if you dont use water it'll take months been there done that!)
i prefer to use ultrasil for moulds its cheap enough and easy to work with,i usually get 50 lures from a mold before it has to be replaced,a mold to make a 50mm lure should only use about $10 worth
of silicone.a little tip for you ,always put a little more hardner in than what the instructions suggest.
if you get a bubble in the top of your lure mix a little extra resin and put it in,as long as the bubble isnt too big it'll be fine
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puglee62
Stall Holder Fugly Lures Joined: 03 Feb 2010 Location: ipswich Status: Offline Points: 7939 |
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I dont use mold release agent i recon it buggers the molds and stops the paint from sticking to your lures
this is the resin you want Nando http://www.barnes.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=90_97&products_id=2180
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Pilly
Senior Member Joined: 21 Jul 2010 Location: Emerald, QLD Status: Offline Points: 777 |
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I second that Chris. The Barnes products are what I have been using and I have been having a ball experimenting with a few of their different products. My wallet was hurting pretty bad when I walked out of the Barnes shop last time. It is great how you can play with a lures bouyancy characteristics by varying the amount of Q-cells used in the mix.
Cheers
Adrian
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Toga Fever
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Pilly
Senior Member Joined: 21 Jul 2010 Location: Emerald, QLD Status: Offline Points: 777 |
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Hi Chris,
Which type of cure (acetic cure or neutral cure) bathroom silicone is the one to use?
I use the Ultrasil also and it is still cheap when you consider the amount of lures you can make from a single mould.
Cheers
Adrian
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Toga Fever
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puglee62
Stall Holder Fugly Lures Joined: 03 Feb 2010 Location: ipswich Status: Offline Points: 7939 |
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i cant remember Adrian that was a long time ago!
My first molds were gutter silicone that i just built up in layers,i'd have the lure set up in the clay like Google has and each day i'd add a thin layer till it was built up enough,they used to get air bubbles pretty bad but they did work ,eventually i got onto a product called gelsil which worked
well and later ultrasil
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puglee62
Stall Holder Fugly Lures Joined: 03 Feb 2010 Location: ipswich Status: Offline Points: 7939 |
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here we go,the top mold is made of bathroom silicone the lines in the mold are air bubbles which manifest themselves as ridges on the lure,easily sanded off though.the next mold down is made of gelsil
and even though its twelve years old it is still good this mold has made about 40 lures.
the blue mold at the bottom is made of ultrasil its about a year old ,its just about worn out though
its cast about fifty or sixty lures.
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JD LURES
Unverified New Member JD/Eddy Lures Joined: 21 Jul 2010 Status: Offline Points: 156 |
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Hey guys
Use Talcum powder for your release agent and your mould will last a lot longer.
It also has no ill effect on painting.
All you need is a soft paint brush and dust it on each side.
If your moulds are becoming a bit brittle and ordinary, bake them in the oven for a while and it will burn off the build up of resin thats been heat absorbed into the silicone and slightly extend lifespan.
I dont exactly know what sort of rubber you guys are using but when I still moulded from here I could get at least 100 medium sized lures out of a mould if you look after it.
Release ( Ease Release ) agent should be used after a moulding session to keep your moulds supple.
As mentioned the best stuff for hobby moulding is the NON RISE two part Urethane resins and then add Q-Cell for bouyancy. The expanding foam is very difficult to do from home unless you have extensive moulding experience and the propper technique in mixing, temp control and mould bracing support.
Foam is also deadly on normal RTV rubber silicone and a high strength and very expensive rubber must be used.
I have done both the non rise and foam techniques and the non rise is the only real ecconomic option for the small scale maker.
If you are getting a rise in your NON RISE Urethane then it is tainted with moisture.
Urethane will pull moisture from the air around it once exposed and if you dont look after it and use it quickly it will become un useable in a short time.
There is a dry air blanket spray that helps but only for a while.
Also if you paint the lures that have been made from moisture tainted resin you will find that if they get warm in the sun they will blister like a cane toad from trapped gasses escaping between the paint and lure body.
Both Urethane and Q-Cell will absorb moisture on humid days so care must be taken with your products or it can become a big waste of money very fast.
Your lure bodies will start coming out of the mould looking like pummice from a Volcano and almost impossible to paint.
JD
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puglee62
Stall Holder Fugly Lures Joined: 03 Feb 2010 Location: ipswich Status: Offline Points: 7939 |
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lots of good advice there thanks Jamie,i never knew that about baking molds i'll try that.the moisture thing is a big issue with urethane,i learned the hard way unfortunately
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Pilly
Senior Member Joined: 21 Jul 2010 Location: Emerald, QLD Status: Offline Points: 777 |
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Very informative JD, Thank-you
I spray my RTV moulds with a release agent called Stoner E302 Rocket Release which is a paintable food grade release agent and so far I have not had any issues with paint adhesion.
I have experimented with a foaming resin which I have used in rigid moulds made from car body filler with success although I do prefer the Easycast resin.
Regards
Adrian
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Toga Fever
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Screamingreel
LureLovers.com Fanatic Joined: 19 Oct 2010 Location: Adaminaby, NSW Status: Offline Points: 6127 |
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Boy some high brow stuff there.
Will have to re read in the morning and try an digest.
A lot of valuable information if you can follow, Thanks
Regards John
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JD LURES
Unverified New Member JD/Eddy Lures Joined: 21 Jul 2010 Status: Offline Points: 156 |
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Guys, I cut my teeth and started moulding with this stuff many years ago now. Trust me when I say that I have seen and been through almost every conceivable problem this sort of lure making can come up with, and there is A LOT
It is a interesting and fun thing creating with this stuff but can also be a bloody nightmare with all the problems.
The differences in non rise and rising foam style are endless and both have good and bad propereties.
The non rise two part with Q-Cell is great for almost perfect bouyancy ratios on a per lure basis, is very user friendly, but isnt as strong or durable as foam Urethane.
It is also very touchy with moisture problems, secondary painting problems that dont always show up until later on and is more likely to crack in weak spots in cold water.
Foam is the toughest finish you can achieve, is almost imperviase to major moisture problems as its a water content in the mix already that makes it expand as well as other factors and gives you the best finish pre painting.
It is however a problem trying to get exact consistency of bouyancy with it.
Big lures are not a problem but if you want to make suspending or countdown type lures in small sizes its difficult to get each lure exactly the same.
All it takes is a temperature difference on a given day and the expansion or foaming of the resin can be less or more than on a hotter or colder day.
Its one of those areas unfortunatelly that is a bit " in the trade sensitive " as far as how much info gets out but like me the more you are prepared to play, the more you will learn.
My biggest piece of advice for anyone wanting to have a crack at this is crawl before you walk, start small, practice and see all potential problems that can arise before you jump in to big with materials.
JD
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Pilly
Senior Member Joined: 21 Jul 2010 Location: Emerald, QLD Status: Offline Points: 777 |
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JD,
What is the name of the expanding urethane foam that I should buy?
Cheers
Adrian
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Toga Fever
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Screamingreel
LureLovers.com Fanatic Joined: 19 Oct 2010 Location: Adaminaby, NSW Status: Offline Points: 6127 |
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J.D. Once again very interesting
Thanks again
Regards John
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JD LURES
Unverified New Member JD/Eddy Lures Joined: 21 Jul 2010 Status: Offline Points: 156 |
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Hi Pilly
Give the team at Dalchem ( Barnes ) a call.
The last lot I got was MF-160 but what you really want is a Urethane with a 110 rise.
The 160 I have is a little bit over the top with blow factor and hard to keep inside a mould.
There is a 110 I believe but they may need to source it for you.
Been a while since ive got any so its best if you give them a call.
JD
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wrapper
Stall Holder Wrapper Baits Joined: 12 Jun 2010 Location: Yarrawonga Status: Offline Points: 509 |
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in the 1 st post here google said he bought a kit , anyone with any info on them (are they worth getting for someone that has never tried moulding and if so where go you get them)
thanks wrapper
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puglee62
Stall Holder Fugly Lures Joined: 03 Feb 2010 Location: ipswich Status: Offline Points: 7939 |
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for a beginner kits are'nt a bad idea Neil,they have all the instructions and take a lot of guesswork
out of the equasion.expensive at first but buying resins etc after that is not too bad.heres one kit
it sells for $135 plus postage
ive dealt with this company before a little slow with their postage but generally pretty good
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Pilly
Senior Member Joined: 21 Jul 2010 Location: Emerald, QLD Status: Offline Points: 777 |
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Hi JD,
Thanks for your help mate and your generosity in sharing your hard earned knowledge with us.
I am keen to learn as much as I can about this moulding I find it very interesting, maybe there is something wrong with me.
Adrian
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Toga Fever
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JD LURES
Unverified New Member JD/Eddy Lures Joined: 21 Jul 2010 Status: Offline Points: 156 |
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Adrian
You will need to have a few screws loose to stick with it
My hair has receeded and gone grey since dabbling in it .
You will also notice a significant lightening of the hip pocket effect set in.
JD
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puglee62
Stall Holder Fugly Lures Joined: 03 Feb 2010 Location: ipswich Status: Offline Points: 7939 |
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JD might be right Adrian i havent got much hair left either (and i thought it was the kids),maybe best to give it away before its too late! |
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Pilly
Senior Member Joined: 21 Jul 2010 Location: Emerald, QLD Status: Offline Points: 777 |
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I think you are right boys. I just looked in the mirror and my bloody hair is turning grey already and then I read over a few of my recent replies to some posts and I must have a couple of screws loose by looking at what I have written. Luckily the receding side effect is yet to kick in.
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Toga Fever
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Darby
Stall Holder Fishaholic Lures Joined: 29 Nov 2009 Location: Brisbane Status: Offline Points: 7477 |
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HMMMMM does that mean producers of moulded lures are more susceptible to grey receding hairlines, decaying cognitive ability, and reduced income????? .....
might stick with carving timber, it's relaxing and that must be good for the health... Brad |
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"If you are going to have fun with your rod.. get some wood
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