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My personal theory why fish strike lures

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    Posted: 09 Jan 2016 at 11:25am
The most common reason given is that fish strike because of the feeding instinct and that they know what they're striking. A fish's brain is pea size with no grey matter to speak of. The rest of the post reflects that.

First off, fish senses are incredible underwater. Even at night in total darkness some fish species can feed by the lateral line and some lures do very well. As you've all seen over the years, there are a huge number of lures that resemble no prey a fish eats or attacks. Why do they attack? 

Theory: fish have evolved like any other predator species are able to track and then attack prey. Something in a simple fish's brain is programmed to know the difference between a falling rock and a plastic worm dropping to the bottom. What comes after that - the attack and the reasons for it - vary widely among anglers, but this angler has had experience catching thousands of fish on lures that provoke attacks even better at times than live bait.

Physical lure properties - shape, action, size and color can vary widely on any day and still catch fish but not all fish can be provoked regardless the bait used. The combination of those four features like the a combination to a lock has many combinations that unlock a fish's aggression. Every one of those properties can be changed and still fish attack if they are prone to which is why matching a prey animal is unnecessary. The following are bass lures, none resemble any prey ever consumed by bass, but are my best jig/trailer lures:

This another multispecies lure that works for 5 fish species:

and another example:

Most important of the four factors is lure action. In the examples shown, quiver and flapping are the words I would use that provoke fish - even fish that stare at the lures. The skirt expands/contracts and quiver at rest / the trailer tails flap. The bulbous grub tail bobbles up & down and sideways. The claws flap subtly. Something in a fish's brain is programmed to compare that which it finds objectionable in its space via the four factors and then try it out for size - the size of its mouth. 

I nor anyone else can know for certain that a fish attacks a lure to eat it but IMO that's just adding a human reason/definition for the attack. The attack simply is what it is - an aggressive reaction to a man made object that push's its buttons.

One final note: I feed a school of thirty or so sunfish and four turtles bread balls I make from a slice of bread I throw to them within five feet of where I sit. On a daily basis the fish and turtles swim to where I usually sit after seeing me approach the pond walking down the hill. Why would these animals highly value bread no matter the time of day same for my two dogs? The turtles and fish at times fight each other for the best position and a turtle will crawl on shore not further away than 4' to pickup a tiny piece of bread and back away. Fish will at times steal the bread from the turtles' mouths if the turtles don't duck fast enough. 

Food for thought. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horrorhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2016 at 1:48pm
While I believe the above is true - AT TIMES. I also believe that fish often hit because they are hungry. I have seen Aust. bass, sooty grunter, barramundi, saratoga all track a lure as it is flying through the air and jump up and grab that lure before it has hit the water - amazing stuff. I have had bass and sooties jump up on rocks or over logs and rocks for lures that have landed on them on on the other side. This action can only be because they are hungry.

I also believe that with the perch species (bass,yellowbelly, barra, murray cod, etc except for jungle perch) they can be goaded into striking a lure by continuing to pass it through their personal space and they hit it out of territorial aggression. My biggest bass was a 57 cm, and biggest yellowbelly was 61 cm river fish that I got by casting to the same snag for hours on end. These were the only fish I got on these days - the fish were off the bite but pissed off with my lures. I went fishing with a bloke called Baden (that Debbie and Brian introduced me to) at Glen Lyon Dam. We would troll along a cliff face for hours without a touch. Then we would start getting bumps, then we start hooking fish but none we hooked in the mouth. They were all hooked in the forehead, gills, tails and they all had hook marks in these areas. They were clearly the same fish that were bumping us before but became more agro with our lures as they continued to enter their territorial spaces.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raffey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2016 at 2:48pm
Hi Frank.

Thanks for your post - very interesting. I certainly agree with you - lure action matters. I am much more concerned about the action of a lure these days as opposed to colour.

In regards to water temperature, I think a lot of the fresh and saltwater species that I target are certainly affected by how cold/warm the water is. While they might not stop the way they feed on their natural prey, they do change the ferocity with which they hit lures, if they are even hitting them at all. Techniques need to be adjusted accordingly if possible and I think that's where part of the idea that fish can become shut down comes from.

I do think that some fish hit lures purely as a feeding response. While some lures draw swipes and whacks through interest or territorial responses, I think some are certain that it's food. Take for instance the Golden Perch we have locally. You'll watch them cruise up over a weed bed or shallow rock ledge following a school of bait and implode the water directly around the food, sucking it in. They can do the same to a lure - chase it right from the depths to the edge of your rod tip and I think actively try and eat it. That's my take on it anyway.

Soft plastics often seem to draw more definite feeding behaviour. Some of our saltwater fish that would hit a hardbody lure only once and then shy away will continually grab a lifelike soft plastic all the way back to the rod tip or until it's hooked. I think in this case the fish is definitely trying to feed.

Keen to hear what others think. Intersting topic.

Cheers,

Danny.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lungi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2016 at 3:19pm
I wrote the following item several years ago for my then website.
I believe the content is still pertinent to today.


 Lucinda Lures Recreational Fishing Links, Lure Fishing Tips, Tactics & 
      Techniques 

      Welcome to the world of lures and lure fishing.
      As with all great sports, nothing beats experience and practice. Fishing 
      in particular is one of those sports where you never seem to stop learning 
      something new. There are so many variables to contend with resulting in 
      constantly changing conditions. You must be prepared to stay on that 
      learning curve and change your ideas, tactics and techniques as experience 
      is gained.  Keep an open mind and get out there, relax and enjoy yourself 
      - because that's what fishing is all about Ay.
      Be warned - lure fishing & in particular lure casting can be very 
      addictive. It is more like hunting than fishing.  With bait you can just 
      sit there, have a snooze or a tinny & wait for a hungry fish to swim by & 
      hopefully take your bait whereas when lure fishing, you are actively 
      hunting the fish in its domain by endeavouring to place the lure where the 
      fish are hanging out. It is my firm belief that more often than not, a 
      good lure in the hands of a good fisher will outfish a person using bait. 
      I offer for your consideration the following five reasons to back up my 
      belief:
      (1) A lure displaying an aggressive action in a fish's comfort zone is 
      likely to be attacked as a defensive measure.
      (2) A lure invading a fish's territory or strike zone triggers an 
      automatic instinctive strike reaction.
      (3) A lure is made to imitate baitfish - a fish will strike when hungry.
      (4) A lure worked like a wounded baitfish suggests an easy feed enticing 
      the fish to strike even if it's not hungry.
      (5) A basic Law of Nature seems to be that anything that moves abnormally 
      or  looks different is usually singled out & attacked first. Lures are 
      surely unusual.
      It is a generally accepted fact that 10% of fishers catch 90% of the fish. 
      This is especially true in the case of lure fishing for demersal species.  
      Research indicates that the "top guns" of the luring world have the 
      following abilities: 
      (a) To locate fish either by instinct &/or knowledge gained through years 
      of practice.
      (b) To impart action to their lure when it is retrieved/trolled very 
      slowly so as to stay within the fishes strike/awareness zone for as long 
      as possible.
      (c)  To work the lure within structure without constantly snagging up.
      (d)  To vary the retrieval speed of the lure as necessary.
      (e)   To vary the operating depth of the lure with lure changes as often 
      as required.
      Whilst it is impossible for a lure maker to influence fish locating 
      ability (a), Lucinda Lures set out to produce a lure which will greatly 
      assist those 90% of anglers who have problems with (b) (c) (d) & (e).
      Years of research and development has produced the HINCHINBROOK HUNTER - a 
      deep diving timber (white beech) minnow type lure which has proven 
      extremely successful throughout Australia on a very wide range of species 
      including  Barramundi, Mangrove Jack, Cod ( estuary & inland), Flathead, 
      Bream, Tailor, Australian Bass, Sooty Grunter & Yellowbelly to name but a 
      few. A 70mm Hinchinbrook Hunter was used to capture the current World 
      Record (IGFA) and Australian Record (ANSA) 35kg (77lb) Giant Trevally on 
      6kg line class in the Hinchinbrook Channel.
      The "Hinchinbrook Hunter" has all the attributes so lacking in most lures 
      used for demersal species.
      - It has a strong action to any forward movement enabling that very slow 
      twitchy retrieve proven so effective on non-pelagic fish.
      - It is also capable of a fast retrieval when necessary (e.g. when 
      targeting pelagics) & is a gem to troll due to this wide speed range.
      - Depth can be easily regulated from shallow running to about 4 metres 
      using retrieval speed and rod tip angle.
      - Has a head down attitude when swimming resulting in a crash dive and an 
      uncanny ability to jump/trip over snags.
      - The 70mm version will back off a snag when given slack line.
      - The Hinchinbrook Hunter sizes of 60mm & 70mm cover most fishing 
      situations.
      
      LURE COLOUR
      Lure colours are one of the most contentious subjects.  The following is 
      my current thinking.  As with all fishing matters, I try to keep an open 
      mind and be receptive to other ideas and stay on that all important 
      learning curve.
      The basic rule of  thumb DARK DAY = DARK COLOUR,  BRIGHT DAY = BRIGHT 
      COLOUR  seems to work in most instances with the notable exception of the 
      purple/black back Hinchinbrook Hunter or Spinner Minnow which I have found 
      perform well in all conditions.
      DIRTY WATER - I reckon that if a fish has to be within a few centimetres 
      to see the lure then the colour of said lure cannot be relevant. What 
      attracts the fish must be vibration and noise - use a lure with a strong 
      action e.g. a Hinchinbrook Hunter  or Spinner Minnow.  Another thing to 
      consider is that when water is thick with sediment, the oxygen content is 
      said to be far greater near the surface so don't forget the humble popper. 
       I have had good results when using the Skinny Boy Fizzer/Popper.
      In my opinion, a lure should not closely imitate natural baitfish colours. 
      If my previously stated contention that a basic Law of Nature states that 
      anything unusual is generally attacked first, then the opposite should be 
      the order of the day.  Why else do all those weird colours and patterns 
      work?
      I do have some set beliefs however, e.g. I reckon a good lure must have 
      red under it's chin (indicating aggression as in flaring its gills) and 
      under the tail as if it is wounded and bleeding.  I also require yellow or 
      gold on the lures belly - don't ask me why - superstition I guess.
      After all is said and done I think the best colour is the one you like 
      personally - think about it, if you don't like a particular lures colour 
      you tend not to use it & if you do use it you shove it out there a couple 
      of times & say "that's no bloody good" and put something else on. 
      The bottom line is, choose colours that you like not what the salesperson 
      or Tom, Dick or Harry likes.  You will find that you will like using it 
      -remember, a lure must be in the water to have a chance of catching fish. 
      You will find that you will try harder with it & have the confidence to 
      use the lure properly e.g. casting into snags etc. Perhaps you will have a 
      point to prove with your fishing mates - my coloured lure is better than 
      yours!!

Cheers Lou,

Just bung ' em in the water mate & hang on !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lead lure Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2016 at 5:04pm
Lou all very true in reality do we ever really want to know the secret answer than what would we talk
about just love having this age old discussion with my friends
Cheers Graeme
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2016 at 9:33pm
Wise words Lou.
Cheers Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raffey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2016 at 9:39pm
Agree - some solid info there Lou and well written.

Cheers,

Danny.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2016 at 10:29pm
Hunger
Is my theory
REMEMBER FOOLS RUSH IN WERE ANGELES FEAR TO TREAD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote senkosam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2016 at 1:26am
Excellent points Lou!!!!

Point by point:
"You must be prepared to stay on that learning curve and change your ideas, tactics and techniques as experience is gained.  Keep an open mind and get out there," Lou

So many anglers I've discussed fishing theory outright reject any ideas that are not conventional.
Logic and personal experience should force one to change a point of view because - seeing is believing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote senkosam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2016 at 2:01am
"I also believe that fish often hit because they are hungry."

Like matching a prey species, to my mind it's never been proven. Homer Circle stated the reasons fish hit lures. He never gave any one reason a greater percentage of time that it occurred but suggested that any one reason could be the reason when a lure was struck.

I thought about fish activity levels for salt water and fresh. Obviously the feeding frenzy on the surfacc is a heightened state of a feeding attack. Did something trigger it: were all the fish suddenly hungry at the same time that attacked a bait fish school near the surface? Or when opportunity knocked, was that the trigger? Fish will feed with other fish still in their gullets. Bass and pickerel are notorious binge feeders and have no qualms trying to choke down another prey object.

Territoriality is the other reason Homer mentioned - kind of like how I get when my neighbor's dog craps on my driveway! Disapprove  But then again how can it be proven opportunity wasn't the reason or curiosity or whatever causes aggressive behavior in animals that feed on other animals?

One thing I've started to assume when it comes to lures being attacked - (sometimes many times on the same retrieve or second cast to the same spot) is that fish are suspending in a neutral state minding their own business, whether in open water or in weeds. The lure first gets the fish's attention and then triggers aggression if certain conditions are met regarding lure use not as crucial as when using live bait.  Nothing complicated in that supposition! In fact the idea is supported by the many times that after one fish is caught in an area, more fish join the fun!

I have a pond I made in my backyard and stocked it with fishery bass and pan fish per law. The weed grew nicely and created a shallow water edge I could observe in water 3-4' deep. Some perch and a sunfish were milling around so I decided to try out a drop shot rig with a hand pour minnow I made. First the sunny hit and then a perch. The more perch came out of the thick weeds and attacked - even after seeing perch hoisted out of the water! Finally out of nowhere a 1 lb. bass hit the rig! 

Conclusion: fish aggression is contagious on one or more inactive fish. You Tube videos of big perch are prime examples of this statement. Why inactive? Because in shallow water or near surface, feeding activity is obvious for most species I've caught. Bass that trigger other bass to bite in deeper water I've observed many times.

Just an idea to consider....


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote senkosam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2016 at 2:14am
"In regards to water temperature, I think a lot of the fresh and saltwater species that I target are certainly affected by how cold/warm the water is. While they might not stop the way they feed on their natural prey, they do change the ferocity with which they hit lures, if they are even hitting them at all. Techniques need to be adjusted accordingly if possible and I think that's where part of the idea that fish can become shut down comes from."

For the first time in my life, I fished 39 degree water from my boat. An acquaintance on another forum has demonstrated year after year, very large bass that hit his XRap while fishing from shore - even when it was snowing! I fished the same lures I usual fish in warm water and found the strike easily detected, though not as easy as in 60 degree water.  I fished from shore a week ago just before the ice formed and caught perch that hit in shallow water. My belief before that was that cold water fish school in deep water and become less active.  Ice fishing 10 years ago disproved that once and for all - shallow and deep!

In one deep lake in Conn., my buddies and I slayed them in 4' of weeds at sunset. Nothing in deep water. In a shallow local lake, my buddy and I caught crappie after crappie from a large circle of holes in 7'. The hits were strong on my chartreuse tube.

I hope to test the above in the future because flukes happen, but each experience that challenges a preexisting idea must be considered - just as Lou said about keeping an open mind.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote senkosam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2016 at 2:21am

"With bait you can just  sit there, have a snooze or a tinny & wait for a hungry fish to swim by &  hopefully take your bait whereas when lure fishing, you are actively hunting the fish in its domain by endeavoring to place the lure where the fish are hanging out. It is my firm belief that more often than not, a good lure in the hands of a good fisher will out fish a person using bait. " Lou

That's the fishing of lures in a nut shell! Hunt and activate fish with presentations and lures that will work under certain or most conditions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote senkosam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2016 at 2:33am
"A basic Law of Nature seems to be that anything that moves abnormally 
      or  looks different is usually singled out & attacked first. Lures are 
      surely unusual."  Lou

Maybe, just maybe, lures have the following characteristics:
1.completely natural in appearance and action
2.a combination of natural and unnatural in appearance and action
3.completely unnatural in appearance and action

Any ever hear of Helin's Flat Fish?  The plug moved and looked as unrealistic as any lure I've ever used, yet it caught fish!!  Some might say a Zara Spook moves like a live fish thrashing about and triggers strikes because of it while disregarding the unnatural zeppelin shape. Both are strange but challenging to predator fish and that's why I use only lures.

I make my lures keeping number 2 in mind and when working them always do so obeying the simple lesson learned long ago - slower is better most of the time in order to keep it in the strike zone longer.  (Strike Zone I define as the smallest area a fish will respond to a lure.) or in Lou's more succinct words:

"To impart action to their lure when it is retrieved/trolled very 
      slowly so as to stay within the fishes strike/awareness zone for as long 
      as possible. " Lou
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote senkosam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2016 at 2:40am
Great minds think alike! (wish I had one):

"To vary the retrieval speed of the lure as necessary.
      (e)   To vary the operating depth of the lure with lure changes as often 
      as required."  Lou

I never need to change lures, having total confidence in the ones I make, but the other points are crucial to finding and catching fish of any species.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote senkosam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2016 at 2:50am
"In my opinion, a lure should not closely imitate natural bait fish colors. 
      If my previously stated contention that a basic Law of Nature states that 
      anything unusual is generally attacked first, then the opposite should be 
      the order of the day.  Why else do all those weird colors and patterns 
      work?"   Lou

Just another way of saying:
choose colors that you like not what the salesperson  (advertisers)  or Tom, Dick or Harry likes.
If I catch fish with a fluorescent chartreuse body/ bright fluorescent tail most outings, whose can say natural  works better? also as Lou said:
"don't ask me why - superstition I guess."

Even some superstitions have a basis in facts unknown to the believer. But hey, if it works.......

Another observation about color:
Here is a clear plastic stick I poured under bright light, light background:


Here is the same stick in less light, same background:


Now against a dark background:


Note color changes even when using gin-clear plastic. The curvature of plastic lures, hard or soft, increases the 3D effect and produces varying color concentrations: more on the upper edge in a brighter light and more towards the center in low light and against a dark background:

As is illustrated above, even the bending of a plastic worm displays different color in different parts of the lure. (IE wacky rig)

I expect that an algae filter would produce the middle picture and as the lure descends, the bottom picture. Most anglers do not use clear lures, including me - except late last summer/ early fall when I found fish bit a clear plastic grub regardless the lack of plastic coloration. (But to be fair, I did use a very small amount of silver dust in the plastic for a tiny bit of sparkle.)

Again, fish might have thought a clear lure represented some animal. But what? Who cares?!
It caught fish.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2016 at 6:28am
I used to keep a pet bass, a long time ago, when I knew next to nothing about lure fishing, although I caught "Eric" on Manns 5+
I was in the Army, and some times had nothing to feed him. So, I would go to the S.A.L block (showers and latrines) and wait by the flouro lights for a big fat moth, didn't take long to collect a few. I would just drop them on the surface of the water, then watch him smash em off the top. There would be the flinch from me as he broke the surface with an aggressive  "BOOF", a splash, and some big bubbles, then after the big bubbles, I would watch the "FIZZ" of the little eppervcence type bubbles come from his gills.

It then dawned on me, as I loved using fizzers and Poppers.
I used to think that surface lures immitated a fleeing bait fish, but now I think differently.

I think Poppers and Fizzers imitate other fish feeding. Think about it like this.

A barra, or bass, what ever, is sitting in their snag when they feel on their latteral line another fish feeding. They position them selves into a position to better sense the activity, tail down, head up and orientate themselves in the direction of the comotion, as they move, they "hear" another boof and sense the fizz bubbles coming from the feeding fishes gills, and then again and again and again! The fish then becomes excited, (for lack of a better description) and "lit up" (watch a barra in this mode, and the dark stripe appears between its eyes from forehead to nose). The fish then senses that there are multiple feeding fish, it can hear and feel them feeding, but cant see them! It can see a sillouette of something that looks the right shape and size of food though,  and feeding noises are still happening, better move in quick before another of the invisible competitors beat me to it!!

The popper and or fizzer has created competition.

I believe that surface lures do this, maybe sometimes its the fleeing baitfish, curiosity or a territorial response, but I also believe that sometimes the response is due to triggering a competitive bite, a race against the other, invisible "feeders", created by the fizzer or popper.

Watch the bubbles a popper like a cone popper leaves, the boof noise, bubbles, and fizz, same for a fizzer, the boof, big bubbles and even better fizz, just like watching a bass or barra take food in a fish tank.

Atheism is a non prophet organisation
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote senkosam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2016 at 7:13am
"Atheism is a non prophet organization" LOL

Fish attention getters and lure characteristics that hold their attention until their aggressive streak kicks in:

Flash is the most obvious and has been a key visual  component of all kinds of lures such as the use of spinner blades and chrome sided crankbaits. But as important may be the pulsating strobe affect.
Strobe lights flash on an off, illuminating the water in bursts of light. Fish in my experience home in on those light flashes and strike. Flash also creates a halo affect in dingy water around the lure.

Silver flake flash (and other bright flake colors) seem to also get their attention and maybe are better at times than the super bright flash of silver blades. Sparkle, especially in soft plastics are some of my go to attention getters and provokers of aggression.

Solid bright colors seem to always be of use in murky water and also produce a halo affect that bright blades do. I started using bright pink body/ chartreuse tail grubs for the first time with great results this last summer.

Clear soft or hard plastic doesn't go unnoticed, providing a muted subtle coloration as described in my previous post. Subtle colors seem to go well with a finesse approach when fish seem less prone to bright & flashy.  Fish notice everything in their environment (except the heron legs attached to the bird that's about to eat them  - so much for fish IQ!).

Splash & wake has it's uses on the surface when fish are shallow or near weeds. Rapala balsa plugs were my first exposure to the effectiveness of that effect.

I used to think rattles were always superior than none, but have come to appreciate lures that don't have them. I'd rather make a rattleless lure hit rocks and create mud clouds near bottom. I guess sometimes a rhythmic sound has it's place as does the strobe.

Flap & flutter catch more fish for me than most other lure characteristics that provoke fish. From the smallest soft plastics to the larger bass jig trailers, they just seem to be naturally attractive to fish.

Size matters!  Too large and fish may ignore the lure; too small and fish may ignore the lure. I experiment with a size range and move it up or down depending on fish aggression. I've caught fish all day on one or the other sizes and sometimes both. I small size may be seen as easy pickn's and a larger size just fine the day after.  Seems these fish bit off more than they could chew:


Strange but true and there are others !



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nicho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2016 at 10:43am
Endless theories, and just when you think you have it worked out, along comes a fishing session that completely changes everything you thought you had discovered.
ALL above comments are most likely correct on any given day.,but they are subject to change.
I know I learn something everytime i go fishing, and next time i go what i thought id learned often gets changed once again.... thats why its called fishing not catching.
heres a few things that amaze me.
I worked a few years on swains reefs line fishing for coral trout sweetlip etc.
In the shallow crystal clear waters i made many observations.
The trout could be sitting on the coral....i could drop my baited unweighted line and watch it slowly float down to a group of trout, the bait would land in front of them, sometimes amongst them, they showed no interest, i could jig my bait up and down in front of them, on their noses, rest it on their heads and let it roll off....NO Interest would be shown whatsoever....occasionally they would move slightly to allow the bait to fall off them.
This could happen for an hr.....i once spent 2 hrs doing this to a huge trout of about 15kgs he just sat there... :)
Then all of a sudden its like someone flicks a switch...that same bait can be placed in the water....before it gets halfway down those same trout are racing each other up to get the bait! They do this for a while, then those not caught will sit back on the bottom in a group, and that bait can be dropped all over them again and they show no interest, now these fish havent just eaten, as those that did are in my esky!
So why?
I believe fish are always there, they eat as they choose, generally enticed by different tides/currents.
Same fishing for queenfish on cape york....had dozens swimming behind the boat for about an hr, threw every lure we had....a few fish followed lures back to boat slowly but no interest, the guide we had at the time said tgey will start in 5 minutes as the current pushing past a big rock would reach us by then....5 min later it was like a switch was flicked! As the lure was cast the water was exploding and the lures were hit at times before they hit the water..... half hr later the tide slowed.....the fish swam around us again but would not eat....no matter what we offered them.

fresh water...like martin said, i often get bumps and catch cod and bass with lures hooked in the side of head, ive watched these fish, and they will follow lure well out from their snag/ home and strike aggressively with a sideways boof using the side of their head, ive had cod and bass do this close to my kayak throwing my lure back at me.
I look at this as territorial....not feeding.
Othertimes, i see the shadow of a fish moving at great speed and meeting my lure when or just before it hits the water.
Id say this is when in feeding mode....just like the saltwater, they are eating or they are not.
Like i mentioned, i dont think we will ever know, but its good to have our theories, it keeps it interesting.
Jas


Nichos Maulers Homemade timber lures....THEY CATCH FISH!

YA DONT KNOW...IF YA DONT GO...SO GET OUT THERE AND... FISH IT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2016 at 3:33pm
Great post! Love your last one Nicho.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote puglee62 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2016 at 7:49pm
Originally posted by Nicho Nicho wrote:

Endless theories, and just when you think you have it worked out, along comes a fishing session that completely changes everything you thought you had discovered.
ALL above comments are most likely correct on any given day.,but they are subject to change.
I know I learn something everytime i go fishing, and next time i go what i thought id learned often gets changed once again.... thats why its called fishing not catching.
heres a few things that amaze me.
I worked a few years on swains reefs line fishing for coral trout sweetlip etc.
In the shallow crystal clear waters i made many observations.
The trout could be sitting on the coral....i could drop my baited unweighted line and watch it slowly float down to a group of trout, the bait would land in front of them, sometimes amongst them, they showed no interest, i could jig my bait up and down in front of them, on their noses, rest it on their heads and let it roll off....NO Interest would be shown whatsoever....occasionally they would move slightly to allow the bait to fall off them.
This could happen for an hr.....i once spent 2 hrs doing this to a huge trout of about 15kgs he just sat there... :)
Then all of a sudden its like someone flicks a switch...that same bait can be placed in the water....before it gets halfway down those same trout are racing each other up to get the bait! They do this for a while, then those not caught will sit back on the bottom in a group, and that bait can be dropped all over them again and they show no interest, now these fish havent just eaten, as those that did are in my esky!
So why?
I believe fish are always there, they eat as they choose, generally enticed by different tides/currents.
Same fishing for queenfish on cape york....had dozens swimming behind the boat for about an hr, threw every lure we had....a few fish followed lures back to boat slowly but no interest, the guide we had at the time said tgey will start in 5 minutes as the current pushing past a big rock would reach us by then....5 min later it was like a switch was flicked! As the lure was cast the water was exploding and the lures were hit at times before they hit the water..... half hr later the tide slowed.....the fish swam around us again but would not eat....no matter what we offered them.

fresh water...like martin said, i often get bumps and catch cod and bass with lures hooked in the side of head, ive watched these fish, and they will follow lure well out from their snag/ home and strike aggressively with a sideways boof using the side of their head, ive had cod and bass do this close to my kayak throwing my lure back at me.
I look at this as territorial....not feeding.
Othertimes, i see the shadow of a fish moving at great speed and meeting my lure when or just before it hits the water.
Id say this is when in feeding mode....just like the saltwater, they are eating or they are not.
Like i mentioned, i dont think we will ever know, but its good to have our theories, it keeps it interesting.
Jas


nicho knows his stuff,went cod fishing with him a couple years back on a river he knows well,he said your like as not to catch a cod around 11am here.bugger me he was right!.Theres a lot of good ideas been bandied around in this thread I'd like to add one that has worked for me and that is don't be afraid to do the exact opposite to what you think should work.I fished the Brisbane river early last year for Bass and the water was a bit dirty more brown than clear so I used dark and flouro colored lures worked slow,i fished like that for 3 hours and got nothing ,finally I thought stuff this and put on a small shallow diver which was almost the same color of the water and fished with a fast retrieve and caught Bass almost straight away,i now believe that the fish were hitting the lure because they couldn't clearly see it and it was a case of "grab the food source before it gets away"same as a Spanish mackerel chasing a metal slug.the trick to catching more fish is thinking outside the box ,nothing is set in stone although some things work more often than others.Good topic Sencosam
that's no how ye make porridge!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lead lure Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2016 at 8:13pm
Chris sounds like i need more lures
Cheers Graeme
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote puglee62 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2016 at 9:05pm
yeah mate if you had a lure for every scenario and every theory you'd need a lot of lures
that's no how ye make porridge!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote senkosam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2016 at 10:00am
Originally posted by puglee62 puglee62 wrote:

yeah mate if you had a lure for every scenario and every theory you'd need a lot of lures


Good thing an angler only needs a few lures for all scenarios!

Thanks again Lou for posting your four part ideas. We think along the same lines.
Fishing is really much more simpler than some lead others to believe. Most important is to know thy water like the back of your hand and use lures that are best suited to the fish-structure in different parts of a lake or river.  Fish do change the areas they visit - even during the spawn - but why and how one is able to catch them never changes - even in salt water (unless one is trying to sell something. LOL)

Anyone who've read Lou's and my basic theories of catching fish would do well to reread them, concentrating and thinking about each point as it relates to their tackle, their waters and presentations.  Members on other forums have appreciated the insights volunteered here and many have  considered them useful. Fishing to me is a life long search for truth within the mystery of fishing and the mystery will forever be a challenge to unravel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lungi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2016 at 10:34am
Thanks for your kind comments Frank, it's really appreciated.

More particularly, thank you for starting this great thread mate. I have no doubt that lure fishers will benefit from the many contributions so far and hopefully, more to come.

Cheers Lou,

Just bung ' em in the water mate & hang on !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote edandkell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2016 at 12:24pm
Gday all, about three weeks ago I was lure fishing from the stone weir on Katarapko Creek and saw a dirty big carp swimming around the rocks about ten meters from me. I cast my lure ( RMG Poltergeist) just behind him but one of the trebles got caught in the leader. Trying to avoid getting snagged up on the rocks I began to slowly retrieve it which made the lure slowly spin round and round on the surface of the water. Next thing I knew another big carp came up and absolutely smashed it, hooking him with both trebles in the mouth. I landed the carp but have since been perplexed by this as it was very unexpected. Has anyone else heard/seen of this happening? Ed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flyonline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2016 at 12:53pm
Mmm, I love being devils advocate: (no offense intended for anything said, just observations in general).

1. Just because you catch fish using your theory doesn't make it right/correct. Just because you don't catch fish using a theory doesn't make it wrong. Previous traffic, no fish, fish caught recently etc.

2. The confidence of the person fishing impacts hugely on the success rate and I believe is highly undervalued. If you fish with a lure, presentation, during favourite weather pattern etc. that you have confidence in you are more likely to put in the extra yards to catch a fish be it that low % cast that comes off, the extra 10 min on the water, a few extra casts into the same area or whatever. It would be an interesting observation to make to see what % of fish were caught from these extra effort moments - would be difficult to determine accurately!

During a summer of unemployment I fished 4-6 days of every week for something in the order of 20+ hours per week through all weather patterns and time periods. From memory I only had 1 or 2 sessions that I didn't see any fish - I count a follow as a 'win' in that the fish was responding to the lure in some way. Sessions where I expected to brain the fish and walk away with a cricket score were fishless while others where I went because I could rather than the potential ended up being the hot bite.

I've fished side by side with other anglers using the same style of lures and retrieves and have been handed and given a whitewash in terms of fish. I've even passed over the successful lure on occasion without changing the trend. Luck? Those tiny 1% from above?

It gives me great pleasure to bunk traditional myths/beliefs and catch fish consistently in ways that aren't supposed to work. I now fish with confidence many lures and retrieves that a few years ago I wouldn't have considered and I suspect that many traditional fishers would laugh at.

Most theories will work well occasionally, a few will work most of the time but none will work all of the time.

That's my theory anyway and I'm sticking to it LOL

To re-(mis)quote Phil Wiegall "fishing is about the anticipation of catching a fish". It would be boring if we caught fish all the time.

Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote senkosam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2016 at 2:05pm
" Just because you catch fish using your theory doesn't make it right/correct."

Actually it does if I catch fish consistently from different bodies of water and others do so also with the lures I gave them and the presentations to fish them.

The ideas presented have been tested starting over two years ago and compared by others fishing with me. In fact they had to switch in order to keep up. If that isn't a proper test, I don't know what is! Once various anglers used the lures I showed them how to use, they couldn't thank me enough - their catch rates went through the roof !

In fact I would offer to send anyone some rigged lures, follow the advice given in the post and see if they can't do as well - especially for pan fish of different species. Anyone wanting to see photos of fish caught with just a few colors of my plastics rigged on light jigs, just ask. I'll post them.

...and no, I don't sell lures as a routine, but only to local friends not willing to invest in supplies.

I would also suggest that anyone who doubts the ideas presented, do their own experiment to test the validity of the most important points:
1. color is a personal choice and not one fish generally give a hoot about - a few will do
2. lure design does matter:  lure action-by-design or angler manipulated action via one's presentation

Keep in mind that the discussion is for freshwater fish, though I think the concepts also apply  to salt water species.

Simple  -  irrefutable -  testable

to each his own......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raffey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2016 at 2:27pm
I like your ideas Steve. I agree with you

Cheers,

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote puglee62 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2016 at 3:05pm
yup I agree with you too Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lead lure Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2016 at 4:42pm
Frank a very good post the thing i love about lure fishing is striving to learn more .But do think that having confidence in the lure you are using is half the battle
Cheers Graeme
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horrorhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2016 at 4:48pm
The Sinclair of Fugliness wrote - ,i now believe that the fish were hitting the lure because they couldn't clearly see it and it was a case of "grab the food source before it gets away"same as a Spanish mackerel chasing a metal slug.

Thumbs UpWe spoke about this at length one time going to, or coming from a fishing trip and we both had a few examples where this seemed to be the case.

Here's a fly in the ointment. I used to use the Diawa Fatboy as a wake bait or twitch on the surface for bass quite effectively - but only in the gold chrome racking up hundreds of bass. But if I switched over to another colour in the Fatboy - nothing, have never caught a bass on any other colour. I am convinced the light flashing off the gold chrome excited the fish to bite. Unfortunately I never had a silver chrome Fatboy to see if it was the light flashes was the reason. In this area, the main food source is/ or was (creek degenerated a lot to almost nil fish of all sorts now) small mullet schooling on the surface.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horrorhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2016 at 4:50pm
Originally posted by horrorhead horrorhead wrote:

The Sinclair of Fugliness wrote - ,i now believe that the fish were hitting the lure because they couldn't clearly see it and it was a case of "grab the food source before it gets away"same as a Spanish mackerel chasing a metal slug.

Thumbs UpWe spoke about this at length one time going to, or coming from a fishing trip and we both had a few examples where this seemed to be the case.

Here's a fly in the ointment. I used to use the Diawa Fatboy as a wake bait or twitch on the surface for bass quite effectively - but only in the gold chrome racking up hundreds of bass. But if I switched over to another colour in the Fatboy - nothing, have never caught a bass on any other colour. I am convinced the light flashing off the gold chrome excited the fish to bite. Unfortunately I never had a silver chrome Fatboy to see if it was the light flashes. In this area, the main food source is/ or was (creek degenerated a lot to almost nil fish of all sorts now) small mullet schooling on the surface.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote puglee62 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2016 at 5:12pm
you'd be right about the gold flash Martin,ive seen guys using gold chrome halco surface crawlers catching Bass in the river out here,plenty of Mullet in this part of the river.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2016 at 6:47pm
Confidence in what you are doing and with what you are using is as important as going fishing in the first place, im 100% with you Steve.

The MOST important factor is being able to find fish in the 1st place, dosnt matter what lure you are using if there are no fish there.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Tony Mc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2016 at 9:24pm
So many theories, it is great to read people's thoughts on the subject. Keep them coming, loving it.
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