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The Tacspo Puzzle

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Raffey View Drop Down
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    Posted: 16 Jul 2015 at 11:20pm
Having collected Deceptions for a year and a half now, I've come across all sorts of wonderful models made by Paul. During this period I have also come across a lot of lures made by Tacspo after Paul sold certain models to them in the early 2000's.

I would be very interested to know of how many members on this site who could readily tell the difference at this moment between Deceptions made by Paul and Deceptions made by Tacspo.

The reason I ask is I continually see on eBay Tacspo lures going for the same/similar prices as original Deceptions. This is, however, mostly when the Tacspo lures are not listed for what they are in the item description, instead often just a statement saying it is vintage and rare.

I am certain that more collectors collect Paul's Deceptions rather than Tacspo Deceptions, so I find it hard to believe the majority of people are paying these prices for Tacspos with collecting in mind.

Tacspo Deceptions are a good fishing lure and of course aren't made anymore either, thus there certainly could be a level of demand as a lure for swimming. However to fetch the same price as an original of Paul's that can be both swum and (more sensibly) collected - I just can't work that one out.

I feel it's mostly ignorance on the buyer's behalf, but it could also start from ignorance or deceit from the sellers end. I think the latter is mostly improbable and I feel confusions could be fixed by a more thorough description to ensure there are no issues with buyer dissatisfaction.

Thoughts?   

Cheers,

Danny.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nativeman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2015 at 11:22pm
Mate 

The taspro ones have a map of Australia on the bib,,,clear bib deceptions are Paul's. And what I have been told there are less Taspro ones around then the originals so maybe they could be worth more.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raffey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2015 at 12:28am
G'day Sel.

I'd be very interested to know the numbers and maybe Rob might have an idea of how many were turned on the lathe once Tacspo were making them. Help Rob?


Could certainly be a piece of the puzzle if confirmed to be true Sel

Cheers,

Danny.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2015 at 1:02am
Maybe less tacspo made thus could turn out to be more collectable ??????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lure-Nut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2015 at 3:12am
Tacspo's Deceptions seriously catch fish, but in my mind are not as collectible as the original Kneller Deceptions for a variety of reasons.

I can only guess that 'market forces' resulted in them no longer being produced for retail sale.

It is poor form where Sellers seek to infer that they are selling a Kneller original only to find out later it is a disguised Tacspo. 

Unfortunately it happens too frequently and as a Buyer it pays to be vigilant or just ask the Seller a question first.



Cheers

Rob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fletch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2015 at 8:48am
You can contact tacspo pretty easy to find out some answers your asking ...
When saying some should write tacspo in description you might find some had bought it without knowing and want their money back ... but most of the time its about the dollar so it wont change at all ... its been like that for along time and id say it will always be around as new people pop up to collect a lure ..
Some help make a market price for what they collect by banging high prices straight up on lures when if they had of creeped there prices they could probably get it for less ... as george constanza said ...we are collectors and if we see something of geeat beauty we must have them
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alistair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2015 at 9:17am
You see similar confusion with C lures. To some extent buyer beware but more so buyer be educated. A lot of people are ignorant and I think lurelovers goes a long way to that education as I have enjoyed the members willingness to help those asking the questions. Unfortunately there are also people out there selling on ebay and FB that rely and exploit that ignorance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raffey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2015 at 10:05am
Fletch wrote....
[/QUOTE] Some help make a market price for what they collect by banging high prices straight up on lures when if they had of creeped there prices they could probably get it for less ... as george constanza said ...we are collectors and if we see something of geeat beauty we must have them [/QUOTE]



It depends if the individual knows what they are bidding on. If they have done their homework and are aware of the maker, distribution, numbers and age then I think a high initial bid within reason will eliminate 99% of the tyre kickers and bargain hunters.

I'm yet to notice big initial bids being placed on Tacspo lures. Quite the opposite actually - they seem to be a lure that tends to creep up slowly in price with lots of bidders and bidding.

Cheers,

Danny
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fletch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2015 at 11:23am
Going back there was some big bids on them .. there was a couple who chased every colour in the deception tacspo models aswell ..
Theres alot who collect but dont get involved in forums aswell so makes it hard to find out who and why are they paying the prices aswell ..
I know a fella who fishes his deceptions and happy to 50 bucks for a shrimp and to then fish it as they worked so well ...
The tacspo puzzle has been mentioned a bit in the past ... best thing i reckon is just buy what you after and just watch the rest
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raffey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2015 at 12:31pm
Originally posted by fletch fletch wrote:

Going back there was some big bids on them .. there was a couple who chased every colour in the deception tacspo models aswell ..
Theres alot who collect but dont get involved in forums aswell so makes it hard to find out who and why are they paying the prices aswell ..
I know a fella who fishes his deceptions and happy to 50 bucks for a shrimp and to then fish it as they worked so well ...
The tacspo puzzle has been mentioned a bit in the past ... best thing i reckon is just buy what you after and just watch the rest


As Alistair said earlier, forums like this have been very helpful in educating collectors new and old about the differences in distributors and the lures themselves as brands change ownership. If there are collectors out there that don't use these sites, even purely as a reference, then that could be a reason in itself - a limited knowledge of what's what.

Cheers,

Danny.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cunji Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2015 at 3:53pm
By not being a member of this forum or any other doesnt mean you have 'limited knowledge of whats what'. There are more blokes out there who cant or wont use forums that have a much more vast knowledge and collection of goodies then we'll ever know. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raffey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2015 at 5:34pm
Originally posted by Cunji Cunji wrote:

By not being a member of this forum or any other doesnt mean you have 'limited knowledge of whats what'. There are more blokes out there who cant or wont use forums that have a much more vast knowledge and collection of goodies then we'll ever know. 


Hi Cunji,

I'm sure there are some collectors out there that do not use forums or the internet at all that have an incredible knowledge of one or more makers. That's why I said it could be one of the reasons, not exclusively the only reason. You also don't have to be a member on this forum to obtain written reference material from it. I got a lot of information from it before I joined.

I'm also really only referring to the Tacspo puzzle in that statement too. If there is in fact a collector out there with an extreme in depth knowledge of Tacspo Deceptions in regards to numbers of models made, colour runs, why many people are paying as much for them as original Deceptions, and he/she hasn't ever used forums then I would be very keen to talk to them one day.

Cheers,

Danny.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote simon bruce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2015 at 7:06pm
Originally posted by Cunji Cunji wrote:

By not being a member of this forum or any other doesnt mean you have 'limited knowledge of whats what'. There are more blokes out there who cant or wont use forums that have a much more vast knowledge and collection of goodies then we'll ever know. 

If we dont know the are out there then we probably wont know what knowledge or "goodies" they have so Ill just imagine its not a high proportion.

And really if they wont share their knowledge then its questionable that its worth knowing because its not up for scrutiny.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Basswhisperer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2015 at 8:44pm
Hi guys this is a great post, I'm more a a fisho than lure collector. I am very interested in this can someone let us know why deceptions were stopped being made? And than why did the tascpo ones stopped getting made.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote murraycod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2015 at 9:22pm
As far as I can gather from the rep, the bloke who made and painted the Deceptions and C-Lures resigned from Tacspo and they couldn't find anyone to replace him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Aussbasstony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2015 at 9:57pm
Originally posted by murraycod murraycod wrote:

As far as I can gather from the rep, the bloke who made and painted the Deceptions and C-Lures resigned from Tacspo and they couldn't find anyone to replace him.


I'll
Agree with you I bought some lures from a gentleman whom told me the same story .

Raffey, you can try and try to help people about the crap that goes down on eBay , but crikey some people get very toeie about it and abuse you for helping. Thinking those people have something to hide !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rockygravel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2015 at 8:00am
Originally posted by simon bruce simon bruce wrote:


If we dont know the are out there then we probably wont know what knowledge or "goodies" they have so Ill just imagine its not a high proportion.

And really if they wont share their knowledge then its questionable that its worth knowing because its not up for scrutiny.

Simon ,

Are you kidding ?

I have not seen John Ellis on this or any other forum.

Does that make his knowledge of the Stump-jumpers questionable because you cannot scrutinise it ? Strange theory !

Rocky
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote simon bruce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2015 at 7:17pm
Hi Rocky

welcome to the forum and thanks for your input to the discussion.

I look forward to your ongoing contribution to the site.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigriver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2015 at 1:06am
I sold Deception Lures to Tacspo and spent the best part of 4 months back and forward to Brisbane 3 to 4 days a week (above and beyond any agreement, to "Try" and make it succeed) Ashley (Ringtail Lures) was hired to take over the production of both Deception and C Lures, with the "lure" of producing Ringtail lures there as well, and he was doing a mighty fine job. Unfortunately some people just can't be helped, Ashley didn't stay long as he was constantly being pulled in the wrong direction by people who didn't have a clue. I heard via the Grape Vine that someone was injured as well (not making lures though, another manufacturing operation they had going) and nothing has come out the doors since. A real shame cause I didn't want to see it go that way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote simon bruce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2015 at 1:13am
Originally posted by rockygravel rockygravel wrote:

Simon , Are you kidding ?

I have not seen John Ellis on this or any other forum. Does that make his knowledge of the Stump-jumpers questionable because you cannot scrutinise it ? Strange theory !

Rocky

Hi Rocky

to answer your questions

1.  No I'm not kidding.
2. No it doesn't.

My comment was about the "more than we'll ever know" number of blokes out there who can't or won't post on forums.

So given I know about John Ellis he doesn't really fit into that subset of blokes out there "we'll never know about".

My point is that if people don't wish to share their knowledge I'm not going to worry about what they may or may not know when I don't even know who they are.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rockygravel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2015 at 7:52am
Hello Simon ,

Firstly let me say , I have read some of your writing and you seem like a fair & reasonable fella. So my post was not to shoot you down , but question the way you worded it.
Secondly , I do not collect or make lures of any type. I fish occasionally for Bass with lures in my local rivers and try to catch the odd feed of Bream and Flathead using bait.
My interest in lures started a few months ago after I helped an elderly gentleman who had trailer trouble at one of our local boat ramps. I ended up following him to his place to ensure he got his boat & trailer home safely after his dilemma . This lead to the old fashion cup of tea and cake as thankyou for my concern.
The conversation during the said cup of tea and cake was all about fishing and then onto lures. I was then shown his collection of lures and fishing collectables. WOW , I was gobsmacked ! A converted garage into a showroom ( probably 6 x 8 metres ) full to a state of almost being called cluttered. Upwards of 15,000 lures he told me , hundreds of fishing reels and rods aswell.
I left his house , came home and cleaned up my boat and then googled lures and collecting of lures. That's when I came across this site. I have been out to visit the fella quite a few times since then and taken more time to look over his collection and ask him many questions about the different lures and brands within it.
To me his knowledge is immence , and he has been hording this stuff for more than 30 years. His words , not mine. At last score , he has over a thousand Peter Newell lures , which I see on your forum are priceless. I mention your forum to him and he said he was a member but not a contributor.
This was what my original point in my post was about , and I only used John Ellis as an example because he is a famous luremaker. I was only trying to make a point.
For the purpose of getting my opinion across , I'll call the gentle Bryce , not his real name. If Bryce doesn't put his knowledge of his lures or collection on the forum to be scrutined , does that mean it is questionable ? Which is how I interpreted your post.
I am sure there are many more Bryces , Bill's , norms ETC out there who have knowledge they don't publish on forums , but that should not make it questionable. Just my opinion , and also , what qualifications do the scrutinisers have to pass judgement ?
Rock
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raffey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2015 at 10:43am
rockygravel you state your friend in the above story to not only be a user of the site but also a member. This cancels him out of the ill informed category I was discussing earlier. He is also therefore not one of the blokes who can't or won't use forums.

I also find parts of stories like the one you just told hard to believe until I see the evidence with my own eyes. This makes Simon's point very valid in that if collections and opinions aren't posted on a forum like this one where they are open for scrutiny and more often than not corrected/clarified in the end, then it is questionable if it's worth knowing.

I would love for you to prove my idea wrong just so I can see a photo of over 1000 Peter Newell lures. That would be an incredible sight.

Cheers,

Danny.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TP23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2015 at 11:23am
Danny , the owners of some of the biggest collections of timber lures in Australia are members of this site and chose to read only and not post , they are very credible people , they chose not to post for the very reason you question , that's why you will never see their collections and they are very happy to remain " ghost members " , no politics, no annoying pms , no phone calls , no dramas ,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raffey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2015 at 12:31pm
Originally posted by TP23 TP23 wrote:

Danny , the owners of some of the biggest collections of timber lures in Australia are members of this site and chose to read only and not post , they are very credible people , they chose not to post for the very reason you question , that's why you will never see their collections and they are very happy to remain " ghost members " , no politics, no annoying pms , no phone calls , no dramas ,


This is where it all starts to make even less sense with regards to my initial topic post. Firstly, I am sure there are some wonderful collections and beautiful old lures out there that don't get exposed for whatever reason by certain anonymous users and/or members.

If it is true, these people therefor do not fit into the category of ill informed collectors. They are members and they're using the site. If these people choose to pay the same price for a Tacspo Shrimp as other collectors will pay for a genuine Kneller made Shrimp, when they have access to photographs and information on this forum about what they are paying for, then I would assume it is a researched and conscious decision on what they are purchasing.

Cheers,

Danny.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lure-Nut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2015 at 12:35pm
Originally posted by TP23 TP23 wrote:

Danny , the owners of some of the biggest collections of timber lures in Australia are members of this site and chose to read only and not post , they are very credible people , they chose not to post for the very reason you question , that's why you will never see their collections and they are very happy to remain " ghost members " , no politics, no annoying pms , no phone calls , no dramas ,

Hi TP23 - yes, ghost members have every right to be and do everything you mention above, that is completely their call and personal decision.

The world is however full of givers, takers, matchers or fakers - it's simply a shame these 'ghost members' are more than happy to absorb the information and knowledge these forums provide, but offer nothing in return to add to the general knowledge pool of other Collectors Confused

As Simon aptly said "My point is that if people don't wish to share their knowledge I'm not going to worry about what they may or may not know, when I don't even know who they are" Thumbs Up

Onwards ....



Cheers

Rob








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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigriver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2015 at 2:50pm
Anyway peeps, back on track now Confused I think the Tacspo Deceptions are becoming very collectible, people are paying pretty high prices for them knowing they are Tacspo products. I guess they were only made for a very short time and it's highly likely they won't be coming out of their doors ever again, so I guess that puts them on the desirable list. As Danny said, that's fine as long as the seller states the origin of manufacture. I have seen countless Ebay listings for them that were setup to catch out the unaware, and spoke to several members on here who were deceived in the past as well. As one of my poor suffering past teachers once said to me "For Censored sake just do your homework son!" Embarrassed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cunji Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 2015 at 11:42am
If it is true, these people therefor do not fit into the category of ill informed collectors.

This makes Simon's point very valid in that if collections and opinions aren't posted on a forum like this one where they are open for scrutiny and more often than not corrected/clarified in the end, then it is questionable if it's worth knowing. 

Above are 2 quotes from Raffey. I'm not trying to shoot you down Raffey but some of the things you say astound me.I have 2 questions:
What gives you or anyone else the right to call anyone an ill informed collector because they dont use this site? 

Who does the correcting/clarifying? Do people who make the lures clarify things or people who knew the makers personally and well enough to be invited into the work area to see first hand and discuss the making of the lures when the actual lures were being made or are the correctors/clarrifiers people who dont know the makers or the real history behind the lures and are offering an opinion. My money is on the last option 90% of the time.

Anyway...enough of that. If you are a lure fisherperson who has used Deceptions throughout the years it is easy to tell the difference between Tacspo and Pauls lures. It's actually written on the packaging as well as having the stamp of Australia on the bib. I didnt get that info off this site.In regards to numbers made and colour runs it may be worthwhile to ask Ashley ( Ringtail ) since he was there painting the lures and has firsthand knowledge, not an opinion.I did get that info from this site.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rockygravel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 2015 at 6:51pm
Raffey ,

If you only believe what you see with your own eyes , you will believe very little about anything in life.
From what I was told by old Bryce , his collection of fishing memorabilia is for his own pleasure and I was fortunate to see it and feel privileged.
If you don't believe what I said , so be it. Because I doubt with that attitude you would never be welcomed into Bryce's house to witness what I did.
Maybe it is that attitude that has lead to his privacy ?

I do not have to justify what I saw and what I wrote . I have nothing to gain with any of it. I only relayed what I had witnessed. Sorry I even posted at all now , and possibly will never post again.

BTW. I have been away overnight and this is my first chance at internet access to see your post and reply. Happy collecting

Rock
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oldman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 2015 at 7:19pm
This is all starting to sound like a now extinct lure forum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aussbasstony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 2015 at 7:28pm
Originally posted by Oldman Oldman wrote:

This is all starting to sound like a now extinct lure forum.

L&M Extinct ?  didn't know that ! 

Phrasing and comments by some people seem to flow across what ever there name is on a forum Laurie. 

I'm lost in this entire thread but also myself is confused by the large Dollar value some are trying to Sell Tacspo as apposed to Kneller made. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigriver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 2015 at 7:36pm
Originally posted by Oldman Oldman wrote:

This is all starting to sound like a now extinct lure forum.
Just thinking the same thing Laurie Ouch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alistair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 2015 at 7:41pm
Subtle as a goat butt in the arse I know. Tend to ignore the trolls unless they break the rules.
Alistair.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alistair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 2015 at 9:31pm
How about you all just stick to the original topic. If you cant then maybe you need to play elsewhere.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Raffey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 2015 at 9:54pm
Glad to hear it’s not just me who is perplexed by the Tacspo situation, Ausbass. Thanks to Paul for the history and for presenting an interesting side that I hadn't considered- I’d just assumed that their price was driven by newbie collectors being unaware of the difference, rather than them being a collectible in their own right.

In regards to the other posts on this thread, there’s obviously some politics that I’m not 100% aware of and don’t wish to get involved any further. I agree with Alistair, let's try and get this discussion back on track.

Cheers

Danny.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kayargh1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 2015 at 9:35am
Did Tacspo make all the various Deception models that Paul originally made? I have a few lures bought (retail) a long time ago as Palaemons. Their bibs are far too small to have any map stamped on them and their finish is a mile too rough to have been made by Paul. I have a few originals for comparison. Are they made by Tacspo or someone else ? Regards, Ken.
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