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TO ALL LURE MAKERS

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bluey View Drop Down
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    Posted: 12 Nov 2012 at 7:50pm
Hi All
i am a lure consumer not maker, there are lures from makers that swim at speed
in a test tank yes, but work them in around the snags ect try and twitch it nothing
this is the only polite way to ask all makers to sort out what the lure is used for
and test it, a fish in the middle of a hot bite great, but when you need to work a lure
to entice a fish that have seen a few lures very hard without good action, there are a few that just do not make it
and will be used for trolling
hence will be pulling more of my collectables off the wall and fishing themLOL
please don't take offence but but to keep selling you need to improve and test
 
kind regards George
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jamie Mc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2012 at 9:26pm

LOL good call George I spent 4 weeks trying to make my first batch look pretty.... was happy with the paint and style THEN SWAM THEM IN THE POOL ..All they where good for was pool toys for the kidsLoserThey didnt even sink in style!!! Cheers mate

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigriver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2012 at 6:36am
Originally posted by bluey bluey wrote:

Hi All
i am a lure consumer not maker, there are lures from makers that swim at speed
in a test tank yes, but work them in around the snags ect try and twitch it nothing
this is the only polite way to ask all makers to sort out what the lure is used for
and test it, a fish in the middle of a hot bite great, but when you need to work a lure
to entice a fish that have seen a few lures very hard without good action, there are a few that just do not make it
and will be used for trolling
hence will be pulling more of my collectables off the wall and fishing themLOL
please don't take offence but but to keep selling you need to improve and test
 
kind regards George
That's pretty broad George?? First as a consumer make sure you are buying apples as apples? A lure can be designed to cover many facets but a Bomber ain't going to "wobble" like a Kadaitcha and a Kadaitcha won't "stick" (twitch) like a Bomber! Even an industry standard like the Reidys B52 is made a better stick bait with some bib mods, but at the cost of a little depth. If you are buying twitch baits, that don't "twitch" very well, then there is problem. Having said that if it is a shad style lure towed from the bib? Chances are it won't handle erratic jerks very well, Cheers Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nutter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2012 at 7:21am
May-be the maker designed them to be retrieved and not twitched. I know this as I (maker) design lures for the style of fishing I do. Some species DON'T like a twitch where others do. If you are in contact with the maker and communicate what you require he/she should be able to sort you out. As you have found out, just because it looks like it will behave in a way does not mean it will. 

Just my 2c worth
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote puglee62 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2012 at 12:23pm
yup the boys are spot on George ,best to do as you were saying get em' off the wall and fish them and if possible test them in a pool that way you know what you've got from the getgo.by the way i'll have to get your adress off you mate i have some Barra /mackerel lures i would like you to test for meWink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chooka44 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2012 at 1:19pm
I agree George. I've got a number of lures [too many in fact] from various makers that won't swim in real time. Testing in a tank or even a swimming pool isn't testing at all in my opinion. Some complaints i have are the lures are too bouyant and won't dive. If you try and give them some pace to try and get them down they just blow out. It doesn't matter how good they look [or bad for that matter] if they won't and cant swim then they are a waste of paint hardware and money when you but them. Some makers will take constructive criticism other turn on you like mongrel dogs. I just don't go back for 2nds these days as it's easier than being called all sorts of names by makers who don't give a shit and are only after your hard earned $$$
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OCD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2012 at 1:50pm
As an amateur lure maker, I welcome feedback. In my opinion, any lure maker worth their salt and who wants to build & keep a customer base needs to listen to constructive criticism. However, you can't expect a lure maker to test every lure under every possible situation. Fisherpeople also need to understand that if they want the "perfect" action, they may need to do some fine tuning. Any lure fisho worth their salt should know how to fine tune a lure to suit their specific need. Float rates are one thing but every fisho wants something different, something as simple as a heavier split ring change the float rate. If you have issues with a lure, speak to the maker, if you get no satisfaction, ask for your money back, tell your mates & don't go back. If a maker starts to loose customers, they should pick up something is wrong.
Just my thoughts.

Cheers,

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mcleod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2012 at 2:24pm
George,
 
I think you need to be careful not to generalise, making a lure to do everything is no easy feat. I certainly dont know how to do it. I am still fairly green when it comes to making lures but generally I make them to how I want to fish not say how you want to fish. The beauty for you as a consumer in a forum like this is that you at least have the chance to discuss what you want with the maker and hopefully get that. If you just buy a lure in a tackle shop you hopefully get what it was designed to give.
 
Like Paul said, for sure if you asked for a twitching lure, got a trolling lure and paid good money for it, then by all means contact the maker, but if you just got a lure and it wont twitch when it is not designed too, I struggle to see why that is the makers fault.
 
I would also say that as a consumer, you may still have to work a lure to get it to perform as per design. Walk the dog lures are a good example of this, without the fishermans action being imparted on the lure it wont do what is was designed to do. Nothing the maker can do about that, if the two dont work together you wont get the correct result.
 
When it comes down to it, if you have an issue with a makers lures, I say contact them. I know personally I am happy to recieve feedback on my lures good or bad. Good is always better but bad can have its place aswell. Using a forum like this is the perfect world in my opinion, you have the maker right on your doorstep to get what you want and can work together for a good end result. I know recently I recieved feedback on one of my lures which was both constructive and helpful, I welcomed it because I recon the bloke is decent, knows his stuff and wasnt being an arsehole about it.
 
I will certainly agree with you though that tanks are not the place to test lures unless it is big enough. Cant beat the real world for testing, aside for those with swiming pools.
 
Angus
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reelsandlures63 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2012 at 2:27pm
I have been buying lures from all around australia and the world for that fact and i can tell you one thing that there is not one lure out there that will do what everyone wants it to.as an ex lure maker i found if i made a shallow diving lure the punters wanted it deep if i made the lure 3 inches long they wanted it for inches long.so all i can say on the matter is if any of you at lure makers or want to be lure makers all can please everone out there i will be more than surprised.it is just human nature to have some of the people critisize what others do and if they can do it better let us all see it.steven
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Hunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2012 at 2:43pm
Some very good comments guys , I now have a number of lures from the makers here , and so far have not had a problem , now I by no means am expert on the use of  small lures , some are not the action I want but that is just me learning , so I now ask the maker as you may have seen in some of my posts the lures I have used , and Bluey your post is a good one as the replys help others understand that may not be as advanced in the use of lures as some .
 
             Ian
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pearcey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2012 at 3:11pm
try twitching a big bibbed lure that has a towing point on the bib , pearcey
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fletch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2012 at 6:28pm
wish i had critacism on this for lures i made ...... instead i just got you are an embarrasment and the talk of alot of p---ed of people ......along with alot more ............
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chooka44 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2012 at 7:18pm
Originally posted by Pearcey Pearcey wrote:

try twitching a big bibbed lure that has a towing point on the bib , pearcey


And make sure you use an ugly stick not an $800 Loomis
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2012 at 7:40pm
I guess most the above is a good reason I will stay a small maker, I would prefer to work closely with an angler to provide a lure that meets his needs and perfect it till it works well, than punch out hundred of 'generic' lure shapes that might or might not do what every one wants. Also why I test the prototypes in "real" water for action and depth capabilities and tweek it in a swimming pool rather than a test tank.
Recently I spent a weekend up at Maroochydore at a motel right on the water. My mate wanted to go fishing off the pontoon, but I spent most of the time swimming my future lures and some variations on established models.

Brad
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2012 at 9:10pm
i wonder how any of you know how i fish a lure, and how stupid i am to use
market lures, the only broad thing is most of your heads
 
this was an honest post to make us all help each other to make (use) a better product
but as i do not know how to use them, and all your lures are perfect
sorry Steve but i do get lures from various parts of the world that do exactly what they say and what i want
catch fish
 
it's not about wiggle wobble an inch long a foot long it's about a lure swimming that's all
 
kind regard George
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2012 at 10:50pm
aint no good buying lures that dont work bluey ,,,,,and ya dont buy no more
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mdlures Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2012 at 2:27pm
Originally posted by fletch fletch wrote:

wish i had critacism on this for lures i made ...... instead i just got you are an embarrasment and the talk of alot of p---ed of people ......along with alot more ............


quick fix to that aaron, just copy other peoples lures that do work LOLWink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote River Rover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2012 at 2:51pm
I guess being a little OCD as a lure maker is a good thing. We have long sessions at the AKLURE test facility where lures are swam every time even when we know that some will never see water it still matters to me that they would do what they are meant to do. To give you an idea I am working on new bug shaped lures, multiple bib changes in varied materials and input from the top guys I know happen before the test models are given away to friends I know will fish them and be honest in feedback. This in this case has led to a stick bait version as a mate said I want less not more with finnicky bream. An example to all of us is Travers at the annual show we do where he asks what where and how the person fishes before selling the lures. So we as makers try our best, we may get it wrong at times but I know the guys I hang with give it their best. PS I love to see RAVA have the occassion stuff up cause I for years have caught heaps on his lures with minor imperfections that he wouldnt sell.
David
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pearcey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2012 at 2:51pm
these lures were not tested before gluing and priming when i tested them in the canal they twitched great and swam at speed without any adjustment thats what over 30 years of lure making experience is the difference , you can not just pop up a lure with out trail and error,pearcey
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2012 at 10:00pm
Originally posted by mdlures mdlures wrote:

Originally posted by fletch fletch wrote:

wish i had critacism on this for lures i made ...... instead i just got you are an embarrasment and the talk of alot of p---ed of people ......along with alot more ............


quick fix to that aaron, just copy other peoples lures that do work LOLWink
 
 
????? is that how you do it MD
so you are saying theres lures that don't workQuestion
 
the Poes, tripple impact fizzers,if we want to get gritty i can put most of you makers
matched with a lure, and some guy's with a great new turn or idea,was on a lure produced many years ago we all have the net, but that's not what i thought this site was about
but as i said on other posts the Aussie way is to improve on an idea, and have a go at making lures
did anyone just get a magic shape overnight?
Mollers,Demsters,whites,Zan Grande,ect,ect,ect all similer and an improvement on the Heddon Tiger or each other 
the Nilsie,Rapala Lures, no one ever make one??
but if you guy's can't help each other out, and blame the customer because he does not know what to do with a fishing lure, in your eye's were hopeless, but as a consumer i use hundreds of different lures a year
not just one that i think is crash hot
 
regards George
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pearcey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2012 at 12:14am
these 4 lures all have different bib positions , pearcey
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Davent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2012 at 12:18am
Bluey, like music, its all been done before. But i like timber lures for all sorts of reasons, and although i make a few, i buy a heap to, and i, like you am a consumer first and formost. Ive bought lures that i dont like heaps of times. Looks the goods, but dosnt do much at all, and dosnt suit the way i fish, i dont buy those any more. Then there are the ones i really really like, and when i get wind of them, ill buy some, 6, 8,12 at a time, in case "he" stops making them, then i will hit panic mode, even though i have about 40 in stock!
Easy really, like fishing, try a new one, if ya like it, buy some more, if ya dont, dont buy any more, but dont lecture the bloke who makes em, tell him why you dont like it, if you get the chance.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mdlures Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2012 at 12:26am
 
????? is that how you do it MD
so you are saying theres lures that don't workQuestion



Q 1: No it's not particularly what I set out to do George, it was a private joke with Aaron Wink having saying that, it's not hard to pick my influences in what I make...

Q 2: As far as lures that don't work ? I have bought lures (& I'm not the only one) off some "lure makers" that are total crap & don't swim, twitch or anything & basically wouldn't pull a strike if you lobbed it into a school of feeding pelagics. Even though they look OK, I don't collect lures myself so they are useless to me. I make lures that work for me personally and my style of fishing & if I wouldn't use it myself, I wouldn't sell it ! 
 How do you improve on tried and proven shapes or styles of lures ? All you can do as a maker is put your own spin (pardon the pun) on what has already been done...... just like guitarists, there where some innovators & the rest follow....  & like some guitarists, some "lure makers" ego's far exceed their talents..... whoops did I say that ? Embarrassed
 
cheers
Mark

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OCD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2012 at 5:52am
Guys, don't shoot me for this but I think we are heading in the wrong direction. I believe George's original intent was to encourage all lure makers to test & continually improve their lures, not criticise them. We don't want to start throwing names around, this sort of stuff is not what LL's is about and it is driving people away from the site.
Cheers,

Gavin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CaptainCranky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2012 at 6:33am
A good topic here introduced by Bluey,however it is starting to get to the stage of name calling and if there is one thing that this site does well it is moderating.Please all go back to the conditions that you all ticked when becoming a member and keep things simple.
One thing to remember about this topic is whether the lure was made as a collectable not to swim or a swimmer.I for one certainly have both.
Ron Gallo has given me quite a few of his lures over the years that did not perform to his high standards (he pool tests every one)I happily have them up on the wall to display but not fish.
All I can say about lure makers that intend to have their lures fished is make sure they do what you as a maker want them to do and the fishing recipients will choose the one that suits their needs.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MXB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2012 at 7:43am
A lure that doesn't swim  is just a painted stick and should be thrown in the bin

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigriver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2012 at 9:28am
Originally posted by bluey bluey wrote:

i wonder how any of you know how i fish a lure, and how stupid i am to use
market lures, the only broad thing is most of your heads
 
this was an honest post to make us all help each other to make (use) a better product
but as i do not know how to use them, and all your lures are perfect
sorry Steve but i do get lures from various parts of the world that do exactly what they say and what i want
catch fish
 
it's not about wiggle wobble an inch long a foot long it's about a lure swimming that's all
 
kind regard George
"The only broad thing is most of your heads!" isn't name calling though?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote puglee62 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2012 at 12:14pm
ha ha my heads long and skinny and does'nt have much in it and i'll be the first to admit itLOL.hey George you and me know each other and i know that you are one very good fisherman,if this thread has done just one thing its made us think about our lures which is good.to answer your question simply mate some lures are mate for'' twitchin'' and some are'nt, to be honest i dont twitch test all my lures because most of the guys i fish with dont do it. the exception to this would be my barra lures. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nicho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2012 at 3:45pm
SmileCant help myselfLOL
 
several valid  points have been made, but all seem to get blown out of proportion, by the next reply.
Probably not intended  to offend, but could easily be read the wrong way.
Blueys statement TO ALL LUREMAKERS im sure was generalised, to avoid pin pointing or naming/shaming 1 person in particular.
 
Overall its a fair question, though it has parts that themselves need questioning, and all thats been done.....unfortunately in a negative way at times.
There are many lures made for so many situations......so not all as previously stated would suit twitching/suspending etc etc etc.
 
I think blueys intention was to put the message out that consumers want a quality item for their money..... and i think thats fair enough.
He mentioned that some lures might work on a hot bite, but when you need to entice fish to bite if they dont want to play....you need a lure that works!
 
 A lot of lures swim sure.....they look great sure......but do they "have it"......IT is the feeling you get when you put a lure in the water and you instantly have confidence that it will do its job.....IF you as the angler puts it in the right spot!.......
you can feel it pulsing on the retrieve.....your rod tip pulses wildly with even the slowest retrieve.....your line bounces around.....it keeps you interested all the way through the retrieve.
YOU know its going to work.
 
I can understand blueys frustration, as I have purchased several lures on site  that look great......but have not had any action whatsoever ........Im talking absolutely no action...just pull through the water like a stick...and without major bending of bibs etc etc ...destroying the look of the lure (ornament)I think theyd be lucky to do anything.......
they wont even get hung up in my busted ass shed!  simply through dissapointment!
(ive got non swimmers in my shed.....happily hanging....that makers have sent me...stating non swimmers).........but the ones ive purchased that dont swim dont even deserve hanging up.
 
A one of, you may let slide as oversight....but several? well Id never purchase another lure from the maker again.....Id never go round bagging him, Id just lose the respect for his workmanship.....and leave it at that.
 
So basically I think blueys got a right as a consumer.... to give a bit of a call out for quality, and if we forget all the differences of opinions on how what lure is used for what, and how its used, and just be willing to take on board a bit of feedback, then everyone can move forward and enjoy lures....whether its making them or fishing them.
 
I know I only knock out a few homemades, but they dont leave my house without me knowing that each and every one has been tested.....if it doesnt have the IT.....its tweaked till it does....I then take a mental note of what was needed..and why ...then put  it in my tacklebox....and start again.
 
I recieve lures from makers.....some old hands some just starting......I love seeing new guys lures, many dont quite cut it at first....they swim ...but dont have IT! but a few months later, a surprise arrives in the mail.....The same guys have sent another lure for me to try....and bingo theyve got IT!!!!
I really enjoy seeing the improvement, and happily give the leeway when things are not quite there.
But I dislike purchasing lures from old hands that just dont cut the mustard.
 
So bluey your right, if everyone just puts that extra effort to ensure the jobs done ....and communicates with the consumer..and the consumer also discuses with the maker.....re: his wants and needs.......... we are all happy fishermen/gals....(most of the time! as you cant please everyone!)
 
And yes most lures are variants of others in some way whether intentional or not.....but if we all keep trying to improve and maintain a level of pride in our work (whether your a hacker or a legend) everyone will be happy........and it doesnt happen often, but someone if they keep trying to improve and learn....may just come up with that lure thats never been done before!
 
Jas
 
Nichos Maulers Homemade timber lures....THEY CATCH FISH!

YA DONT KNOW...IF YA DONT GO...SO GET OUT THERE AND... FISH IT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Hunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2012 at 4:16pm
Jas .  well put mate .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horrorhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2012 at 4:37pm
Good one Jason.....
Martin-

you don't havta be pretty to fish
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wahootim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2012 at 5:35pm
I sure see Georges point, maybe makers can state weather the lure is designed to be cast, trolled, twitched ect, the biggest problem i have had with some lures i've brought hand crafted or mass produced is in fast running tidal water, most wont track straight & swim sideways or swim for a bit the blow out of the water, therefore not holding a true/straight path back to the boat, to give an idea the old Nilsmaster spearhead is one of the few lures that track straight in runing water, food for thought, so maybe some lure makers given a chance next time you go for a fish in the local creek [abit of running water] not just a calm still test tank this may be a time to try a few out & see what happens & test a few patterns out. cheers Tim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote puglee62 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2012 at 6:12pm
good point Tim,i guess if it were wound back faster in the test pool it'd simulate fast water too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wahootim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2012 at 6:20pm
Puglee, The hardest one is to get a lure to swin straight when you cast across the current as we mostly do when snag bashining, running them faster in the test tank may help to get the better,if they hold in the water the faster you swim/test them the better. Tim
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nicho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2012 at 6:52pm
thats basically what i try to achieve tim......I test all my lures in real life by fishing them, and only continue with lures that consistently work for me when the times are hard.
When first testing, and then again before i send a lure out......each one is tested.....first in my small tank...(bath in the gardenSmile)......i use a 500 length of line screwed on the end of a paintbrush.......i run the lure slow.....then fast as possible.....all different paces watching the lure to see if theres any deviation.
If Im happy I continue whatever needs finishing.
Then the neighbours pool gets a work out.....I put the lure in the water and get it to depth then run flatout along the pool keeping tension......if they dont blow out then im happy.
I do this with EVERY lure........ive found that lures towed from the bib (omega clip) can be done this way with confidence, but lures towed from the nose point can at times be more prone to roll up when speed increases  eg trolling ....and may need more adjustment outside of a test tank.......BUT I do run fast! so anyone trolling faster than i can run is going too fast to be a decent fisherman....LOL.....unless your chasing marlin or tuna etc.
 
thats just what ive noticed from my own trial and errors.
 
Jas
Nichos Maulers Homemade timber lures....THEY CATCH FISH!

YA DONT KNOW...IF YA DONT GO...SO GET OUT THERE AND... FISH IT
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