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WEIGHTS for trolling ETC

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bassnbob View Drop Down
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    Posted: 29 Jan 2015 at 5:27am
ID like some info&to hear from anglers that have used SNAP weights  +downriggers  +leadcore lines & lead bombs for trolling lures&flys etc INFO &technique on what reels rods &lines etc thankyou very much Big smileBig smileBig smileBig smileregards bob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JKR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2015 at 6:16am
Hi Bob.

I use that stuff a lot. What do you want to know?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bassnbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2015 at 7:33am
JUST what weights &clips lures depth to use lead core &brands of lines etc best downrggers to buy &trolling leads etc thanks Big smileBig smileBig smileEmbarrassedregards bob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote puglee62 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2015 at 11:24am
you should ask Lurenut (Rob) mate,he's the man when it comes to downrigging in the fresh
that's no how ye make porridge!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bassnbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2015 at 11:59am
YEAH chris i think theres a few flat line legends that may chime in on this threadBig smileBig smileBig smileregards bob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote JKR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2015 at 6:14pm
Probably best to split the topics up. This post: snap weights.

http://www.offshoretackle.com/OR20.html

The heart of the system is the clip. It's kind of like a release clip that is designed not to release. It has a little nipple on one side and a recess in the other. Make sure the line is clipped under the nipple, and it won't come off.

Attach a weight to one end of the clip and attach the clip to your line. If trolling behind an outboard motor, it's good to get some separation between the motor and the lure. Therefore, cast or otherwise let out a measure of line. Once lure is back far enough, attach the snap weight. Freespool snap weight out desired distance, and set your rod in the rod holder.

The million dollar questions of course is "so how deep is my lure?". That depends on:
- how much line there is between the water surface and the snap weight
- how heavy the snap weight is
- how fast you're trolling
- how deep the lure will run below the snap weight

You can measure the length of line you let out after you have attached the snap weight a few different ways. Line that changes colour every 10 yards is one way. Using a line counter reel is another. Using a cheapo Berkley line counter that clamps onto your rod between the reel and the stripper guide is another. I used the latter when I was using snap weights in lieu of a downrigger.

Knowing how much line is between the surface and the snap weight is pivotal to knowing the depth of the snap weight. Yes you do get some swing back behind the boat (and the quicker you're going the further back the snap weight will swing), but you don't lose a whole lot of depth as that happens.

I always used the same sized bomb, and it was fairly heavy, and I always troll at the same speed. Therefore I only had to do this calculation once to know fairly accurately what depths I am setting. I took out a scientific calculator, a protractor, and the line counter. When I had the bomb 30ft from the rod tip, doing the right speed, I measured the angle of the line. In effect that gave me the length of the hypoteneus and all three angles of the triangle. Using basic trigonometry you can thus establish the exact depth of the bomb.

What it meant for me with the bomb that I use and a boat travelling at 2.1mph in freshwater, 30ft of line between the surface and the bomb equated to 27 or 28 ft of depth to the bomb. Add another three or four feet for the trout lure, and the lure was tracking a couple of feet max in depth greater than the length of line between the snap weight and the surface of the water. That's the bottom line, if the math does your head in.

Verdict

Do they work? Sure they do! Can be a bit fiddly getting the weight off when you've got a decent fish playing up, but a snap weight will get you down when you've got no other way of getting there.

Not as scientific and user friendly as a downrigger, especially an electronic downrigger, but they're a damn sight cheaper too. That means you can fish them in places you'd be too scared to run a downrigger (like an area with stacks of drowned timber ).

I much prefer to use leadcore for lure depths up to 25ft and a downrigger beyond that. Having said that, you can get leadcore down further than what you can otherwise achieve by attaching the snap weight to the backing once you've deployed all your leadcore. These days that's the only use I have for a snap weight, but in the days before my Cannon Mag5 electronic downrigger I sure caught a lot of fish on the snap weight.

What did I miss? Fire away.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote JKR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2015 at 6:56pm
This post: leadcore

There's lots written about using leadcore ... most of it correct. There's a few myths that have become accepted as gospel, and I'll deal with them.

Leadcore has a thin strip of lead (or non-lead in some American products) inside a sheath of braided line. Therefore it's thicker than your lighter mono lines and less supple. It comes in various breaking strains and the b/s is directly proportional to the line diameter. A spool of leadcore is typically 100 yards with a change of colour every 10 yards.

first myth debunked
The amount of lead is not the same in every breaking strain. They are all different. That said, the b/s is determined by the amount of braided outer covering, rather than the lead. Therefore, all different line classes of leadcore has a different sink rate. As their diameter is different, they take up different amounts of space on your spool too.

second myth debunked
Leadcore line does not "belly out" after three or four 'colours' of line. You do get diminishing returns, but every colour you let out will get you down deeper. Some people believe that running five or more colours of leadcore will mean there's a belly in the line that's actually deeper than the lure, but that's impossible.

So how far does a certain amount of leadcore get you down? Well, that'll depend on boat speed, line class, lure weight, & lure diving ability. Given that 26lb leadcore (for example) has more lead but is thicker in diameter, how it performs against 18lb leadcore will depend on speed. If you're drifting, the 26lb will get you deeper. If you're doing 2.1mph, the 18lb will get you deeper. I'll come back to depths.

There's two advantages of using the lighter classes of leadcore (i.e. 12lb and 14lb). They're thinner. Therefore they're much nicer to use both in deploying/retrieving and most importantly when hooked up. The heavier the line the more fight gets knocked out of the fish.

I use leadcore for trout. I troll at 2.1mph. With a 13g Lofty or Tassie Devil, five colours of leadcore and 20ft of leader gets a lure swimming at 25ft. Add another six inches in depth for a dual depth Tassie Devil or the big suckers. A floating shallow diver like a Rapala will be slightly shallower. A heavy diver like a Jackall will run at 29ft.

Back to sink rates. The way I use leadcore, the 18lb line will actually achieve the greatest sink rate when compared colour for colour. However, it's so thick that I can only get 4 colours of it (+ backing) on my smaller (5600c4) leadcore reels. Five colours of 14lb takes up less spool space and gets me an extra three feet in depth, so at 2.1mph I recommend the 14lb.

Just because you have five colours of leadcore on a reel doesn't mean you have to use them all. Four colours of leadcore with my set up and boatspeed has me around 19ft. Given the diminishing returns I mentioned earlier, the third colour is getting you more depth than the fifth ... but for a rule of thumb just think "four feet per colour, plus whatever the lure adds on".

Lots of different brands, and the best of them is Cortland Kerplunk. Pain in the backside to find online though sometimes. Like a lot of tackle products, we get bent over a barrel pricewise for leadcore. A spool might cost you $50 in Aust when the same spool will cost you $15 in the USA.

The verdict
Good gear. Trout will rise 10ft to hit a lure, so leadcore is good trolling the 25-35ft contours, or targeting fish to those kinds of depths in deeper water. Has it's limitations, but I catch more trout on leadcore than any other method.

There's a few tricks to using leadcore, but this post is long enough already.

Edit: after-thoughts:
- avoid spinning reels. Overheads (Ambassadeur 5600, 6000, 6500) best with a ratchet. Alvey type centre-pins will do the job, but less stylistically and functionally.
- knots. You can tease the braided covering back from the end of the leadcore line and pinch a couple of inches of lead out. Leaving just the braided outer, you can tie a few different knots. Double blood knot will do the job with 3 turns in the leadcore side of the knot to keep it to a manageable diameter. Nail knots, Albrights, modified Albrights work too.
- US salmon charter skippers use up to 20 colours of leadcore, running them with planer boards and such. Some of them tie in a short strip of mono between each colour, and then use the mono patches to clip into release clips. That's why god invented downriggers, in my opinion.

Yell if I've missed something you want to know.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bassnbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2015 at 7:24pm
JKR awesome info bro thats just what i needed to know about useing the snaps on the lead core &as you said this syle can be fish threw the heavy timber without the cost &worry of loseing bombs &rippin down riggers of ya boat can we add parraviens & how they work to this thread also as ive got little ones made of lead but have no idea how or where to use them THANKyou very much Big smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileregards bob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kayargh1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2015 at 6:43am
This is a very interesting and useful set of posts. Thanks to Bob for raising the topic and JKR for the comprehensive information. Regards, Ken. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bassnbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2015 at 10:03am
IVE got these but no idea how or where to use them but iam really keen to know ABOUT this sort &planer board fishing as well Big smileBig smileBig smileBig smileTongueTongueregards bob












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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bassnbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2015 at 10:09pm
ANYONE got info on these????Big smileBig smileBig smileregards bob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slothy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2015 at 10:26pm
The yellow one is a paravane, used a lot here in SA for snook.  Most stores in this part of the world sell them.

Usually they're fished on a handline.  They work fine if you don't mind that style of fishing.

The holes along the keel let you adjust depth, the ones on the rear allow you to spread the lures. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JKR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2015 at 8:08am
The lead in-line bomb is a trolling sinker. Tie a lure rod length behind one, and let your lure back behind the boat. Pretty unsophisticated approach to depth management, but they get you down. The slower you go, the deeper they run.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Screamingreel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2015 at 12:51pm
I have been told by locals with a spool of lead core line 100 Yds you can get three reels filled I presume it is 2x30mtres(three colour) one by 4 metres, they seem to use Braid backing and not dacron less water retention. 18 lb appears popular.

Will gather more info this evening Trout meeting start 4pm this arvo.

Regards John


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JKR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2015 at 2:54pm
Four colours of 18lb leadcore with a 20ft leader and a Tassie/Lofty at 2.1mph will get you 21ft depth.

Five colours of 14lb leadcore takes up less spool space and runs deeper. As it's thinner, it's also much better to fish with.

12lb leadcore is nicer to use than the 14lb and way better than the 18lb, but its sink rate is less so I don't bother.

You can use less than five colours on a reel, and plenty of people do, but you're sacrificing depth by doing so.

IMO it's better to load up two reels (5 colours each) with a spool of leadcore, and get the option to run a lure at 25ft.

Braid, Dacron or mono ... apart from spool capacity, it doesn't seem to make much difference.

People do go about it differently though ... and good luck to them.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Screamingreel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2015 at 7:27pm
Thanks JKR

I reckon 5 on each would be better and that is how I intend to try first up.

I am at a disadavntage not knowing what depth we have to play with in Lake Eucumbene, perhaps due to the fluctuations of the lake, the locals have nutted out what works over a larger period of time.

Thanks

Regards John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Screamingreel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2015 at 7:32pm
Those lead paravanes of BOB's came out on the market many many moons ago.

Although I have different sizes I have never used them , not sure how successful they were.

Anybody else had a go with them, and found them useful


Regards John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JKR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2015 at 8:35pm
Originally posted by Screamingreel Screamingreel wrote:

Thanks JKR

I reckon 5 on each would be better and that is how I intend to try first up.

I am at a disadavntage not knowing what depth we have to play with in Lake Eucumbene, perhaps due to the fluctuations of the lake, the locals have nutted out what works over a larger period of time.

Thanks

Regards John


Flick me a PM if I can help. Happy to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Screamingreel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2015 at 3:35am
Thanks JKR will do this evening , just off fishing early this morning.

 Have a reel question.

Regards John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hazmail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2015 at 6:33pm
Used lead core and down riggers a lot at Eucumbene and Jindabyne over the years--made downrigger and several 'planer boards', have a 'board' in the shed but got sick of people laughing at me and running over the line--
You can Google Plans for 'boards' on the net, heaps there, mostly Canadians use these----they do work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bassnbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2015 at 6:03am
THE inline led one i was going to use on schooled up bass in winter but went downrigger instead &deep water jigging with softplastics &metal blades so ive never use them they come in all sizes tooBig smileBig smileBig smileregards bob
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